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Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

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Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#121

Post by Cthulhu_ »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #64
Multicomp wrote: post #16

> At some point in the not too distant future, old x86 applications will cease to run on Macs, as emulation support won’t run forever One thing I can credit Android some, and Windows a lot (even 10 with all its manifold privacy and user-hostility problems) with is that they are backwards compatible. exceptions to every rule, etc., but I can run all old versions of Android apps on an Android 11 phone, same for Windows…

There is a cost to that though, the reality is Windows has become rather bloated because MS can't let anything go. It doesn't help that they have never been able to say no to anything and everything getting included.

That said, they are moving in a direction; they've stopped trying to make IE work in favor of a rewrite, keeping IE around for older apps.

Honestly wouldn't be surprised - actually I AM surprised this isn't a thing yet - that they would run older Windows apps in a VM / emulator. Actually they may already do this but I'm just not aware of it.

One thing they have been doing is turn Windows into an evergreen operating system (together with Edge), so that few people will still be running older versions of their operating system.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#122

Post by criley2 »

prawn wrote: post #118
criley2 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between the State and the Private Company is that citizens vote for the State, and Legislators (the "paternalizers") are directly installed by the voters. The iPhone buyer does not get a say in the development staff or direction at Apple. My government intends to be "Of the people, for the people, by the people". Imagine if Apple every single year had elections at every level of their company! Vote for…

Aren't you voting with your wallet when you voluntarily buy an Apple product?

I am familiar with the saying, however, in this case, voting for government officials and creating a "demand" datapoint in markets by completing a purchase are not synonymous.

When we go to the polls, we are literally making decisions about what you call "paternalism". Who should write our laws? Who should manage our criminal justice system? Who should regulate our industries? These are pretty direct decisions to make.

But when we go to Best Buy or Apple Store to buy an iDevice, almost all consumer are not making a decision about the "paternalistic" decisions of Apple, who they employ, etc. They are buying a shiny object that makes their brain give them the happy juice.

I fear for our society if these two actions become one and the same.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#123

Post by Cthulhu_ »

akmarinov wrote: post #47
Tepix wrote: post #3

It will be interesting to see how long Rosetta-2 will be supported. macOS 10.15 took away 32bit apps, which was a sizeable chunk so clearly Apple is willing to alienate some of its users in the name of progress and slimlining.

At WWDC they said they're starting a transition period that'll last 2 years. So I expect them to drop support in 1.5 years

Transition of their hardware, so in two years all their devices will be Mac silicon. Probably. I think the Mac Pro may not migrate, given that it uses server grade hardware and Mac's silicon is not there yet (I think / assume / I'm probably wrong)

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#124

Post by romanoderoma »

czzr wrote: post #103
romanoderoma wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rather it is about making sure it is easy for regular users to get Apps in a safe manner without malware and Trojan horses. I don't intend to sound dismissive, but this line of thinking has a name https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternalism

It also has another name: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_experience

UX can be paternalistic as well

It can also be very bad or the very opposite of what Apple does and also be the best around and still let people free to explore all the options available.

There is nothing specific in what Apple does that can be reduced to simply UX.

Maybe ergonomics is more correct to define what Apple tries to do with their human interfaces, but the Apple store or the locked down platform have nothing to do with either UX or ergonomics.

What Apple does is to remove electric plugs from the walls because someone could put a fork inside them and experience an electric shock.

And I am not the one saying it, I was answering to "Apple removed trojan and viruses to help people who don't know better".

That's paternalism.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#125

Post by my123 »

hehetrthrthrjn wrote: post #82
my123 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Arm, maybe Hackintoshes that will be worth it (for VMs at least) will be possible in the future. If Windows 10 on Arm succeeds... to make that hardware widely available. SBCs do not count. (there's technically nothing preventing you of running macOS arm64 on non-Apple hardware in a VM)

Yes there is: the lack of third party graphics drivers. That single issue has the potential to nobble any useable ARM based Hackintosh, though someone might step forward and implement a graphics driver, but that's quite hard.

That issue is actually quite interesting.

It's because if the GPU is reverse engineered enough, you can simulate an Apple GPU on another machine _and_ run other OSes with a proper GPU stack on those macs.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#126

Post by Cthulhu_ »

weego wrote: post #39

Yeah and don't be duped by the cost savings and reliability of SpaceX, they just want control. Product development is about control in some form. If Apple have genuinely just make a decades leap in performance then you just look at the trade offs. I'm not sure why I'm still typing, the article is such child-like faux insightfulness.

Weird comparison, SpaceX is not consumer hardware and few people make their living off of their services.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#127

Post by amelius »

Multicomp wrote: post #16

> At some point in the not too distant future, old x86 applications will cease to run on Macs, as emulation support won’t run forever One thing I can credit Android some, and Windows a lot (even 10 with all its manifold privacy and user-hostility problems) with is that they are backwards compatible. exceptions to every rule, etc., but I can run all old versions of Android apps on an Android 11 phone, same for Windows…

Not being backwards compatible is a huge pain, but Apple can (somehow) afford to put that burden on developers.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#128

Post by zinekeller »

Tepix wrote: post #97
terramex wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bootloader/kernel signing can be turned off, there is even GUI for that if you turn off SIP first. Is it just like a jailbroken iPhone/iPad, but straight from Apple and without losing warranty.

No, you cannot turn off the signed bootloader requirement just by using the GUI. You need to run csrutil in a terminal after booting into macOS recovery.

To be fair though to Apple, at least it is standardized. Have you tried to turn off Secure Boot?

Note: depending on the specific motherboard it could be:

- Windows Command-line (some Surfaces)

- a simple switch on the BIOS configuration (usually on desktop motherboards which are sold as a part)

- set first a password to the setup and then switching it off (notably some Acer laptops)

- removing a screw physically, setting a setup password and switching it off (some Acer laptops probably copied from ChromeOS SKUs)

- Setting secure boot to custom and then clearing the key database (usually business computers)

- (Technically incorrect) setting it to BIOS/CSM mode

- Shout to heavens because that OEM has somehow hard-baked secure boot on the system and does not have CSM options (company shall remain unnamed but the name ends in L)

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#129

Post by intpx »

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #35
Bud wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that even a serious criticism? Users had about ten years of warning before 32-bit went away. The real impact of that on real users is minimal.

There are some non-trivial apps used by real users that are 32-bit only, in particular the pre-subscription versions of Adobe Creative Suite.

So end-of-life releases that have been replaced with newer builds? Any application that doesn't survive the progression of technology doesn't deserve to-- software requires maintenance. We expect hardware to get bigger/faster/stronger but are unwilling to hold software to the same standard?

I am wracking my brain but cannot think of a single application that I ran on previous epochs of hardware (whether it be 32bit, PowerPC, Itanium, or anything else) that I am now missing out on.FOSS has really mitigated this a ton too because if there was a good idea from a defunct codebase, inevitably a project would spring up to fill that void.

Professionally, legacy software is the bane of my existence because I am expected to move heaven and earth to make crappy, long outdated and inherently insecure proprietary enterprise apps work on modern networks with modern operating systems and modern security requirements. Let it all burn.

Re: Apple’s M1 silicon is all about platform control

#130

Post by blackrock »

To be honest, do most people even know or care what CPU Apple is using for their Macs?

I’m assuming that people buy Macs for the software platform from Apple.

I have a few Macs, and I never had any intention to install Linux on it.

But admittedly I only used my Macs as a toy. I eventually gave up on it, since it didn’t do what I needed it to do.

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