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The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

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Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#91

Post by AntiImperialist »

forgingahead wrote: post #56

Gottlieb wanted to create a way to seize control of people's minds, and he realized it was a two-part process. First, you had to blast away the existing mind. Second, you had to find a way to insert a new mind into that resulting void. You don't need LSD for this, just expose yourself to media (news, social media, "influencers", etc) and they will helpfully convince you that everything you thought before you encounte…

On a related note: one of the funniest things as a non-westerner to me is that a majority of westerners are convinced that when they vote, if they vote for policies that favor their own country, their own well-being, it is wrong.

Here's a hint for those who are struggling: if you're convinced that you should vote against yourself, you've been brainwashed by your enemies.

To those who are feeling anger after reading my comment: that's the trauma trapped in your body being triggered. That's what consumes your intellectual abilities and that is exactly what keeps the brainwashing in.

It helps to be centered (i.e. find your safe place, find peace in your relationships, family or whatever personal/emotional issues you're struggling with, because it is negative feelings that you hold in your body, which is used to brainwash you)... and then when you're relaxed, the reality becomes more clear.

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#92

Post by Hoasi »

ratsmack wrote: post #62
kungito wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN uses voting to legitimize content of higher quality and tries to avoid political discussion. What you are doing is generalizing the non-issue of most platforms allowing the silent majority to express their opinion about other people's opinions. The funnies part about people complaining about getting downvoted is that no one is even removing or preventing you from speaking their mind even if they fucking hate the o…

>HN uses voting to legitimize content of higher quality The majority of the down votes I have seen are for disagreement, and not for the quality of the post. I have seen many comments down voted and flagged dead that were eloquently stated and/or just an opinion.

> The majority of the down votes I have seen are for disagreement, and not for the quality of the post.

It often looks like there is no other explanation than mere dislike or disagreement, which is unfair and calls for improvement. My policy: never downvote any post, and on the contrary, upvote posts that are contrary to my views but have merit and thus are worthy of consideration.

I wish there were better ways to highlight thought-provoking posts, yet moderation is essential. A popular voting system is better than nothing.

Let's compare this with the ability to block people on Twitter just because they disagree with you. That's stupid and not conducive to having a discussion—but then again, this wasn't the point of Twitter in the first place. At the same time, this is also a blessing for people who want to avoid negativity.

In the long run, ignoring problems doesn't make them disappear. Suppressing exposure to bad ideas also comes at the cost of blocking the unpopular good ones.

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#93

Post by DoreenMichele »

spdionis wrote: post #90
DoreenMichele wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Online, platforms with downvote systems (HN included) present the apparent legitimacy of certain views over others, and help reinforce what you shouldn't be thinking or voicing (don't get greyed out by posting that!). Corrective upvotes are a tradition on HN. If you aren't being an asshole, some people will upvote you back to neutral if they think you are being downvoted for the wrong reasons. You just have to have a…

Honestly, I wish dang just immediately force-collapsed these upvote/downvote speculation threads.

1. The site is too big for him to immediately see everything.

2. Sometimes he has reasons for not doing x along the lines of "When we a/b tested it, doing x made the problem worse."

I try to not spend a whole lot of time talking about these kind of things, but I'm personally okay with there being some discussion so new people can learn more about how the site really works.

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#94

Post by andruby »

AntiImperialist wrote: post #91
forgingahead wrote: post #56

Gottlieb wanted to create a way to seize control of people's minds, and he realized it was a two-part process. First, you had to blast away the existing mind. Second, you had to find a way to insert a new mind into that resulting void. You don't need LSD for this, just expose yourself to media (news, social media, "influencers", etc) and they will helpfully convince you that everything you thought before you encounte…

On a related note: one of the funniest things as a non-westerner to me is that a majority of westerners are convinced that when they vote, if they vote for policies that favor their own country, their own well-being, it is wrong. Here's a hint for those who are struggling: if you're convinced that you should vote against yourself, you've been brainwashed by your enemies. To those who are feeling anger after reading m…

Some westerners don't identify strongly with a specific country. I am one of those.

We might consider the "good" of "all" people above the good of our country.

When that is your mindset, voting for policies that favor your own country, your own well-being can in fact feel wrong, if it is at the cost of other people's well-being.

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#95

Post by macdust »

Why is this a legitimate topic on a forum that forbids trafficking in what are labelled "conspiracy theories."

The net effect of allowing a discussion of this sort is to restrict discussion to the few fragments of the record of MKULTRA that were allowed to survive.

Mr. Kinzer's book does not hint at how horrible, extensive, successful, or powerful the program was, nor does it show any cognizance of actual techniques employed in actual operations.

Since we're not allow to bring up the truth, can we just agree to avoid the topic?

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#96

Post by pjc50 »

ratsmack wrote: post #62
kungito wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN uses voting to legitimize content of higher quality and tries to avoid political discussion. What you are doing is generalizing the non-issue of most platforms allowing the silent majority to express their opinion about other people's opinions. The funnies part about people complaining about getting downvoted is that no one is even removing or preventing you from speaking their mind even if they fucking hate the o…

>HN uses voting to legitimize content of higher quality The majority of the down votes I have seen are for disagreement, and not for the quality of the post. I have seen many comments down voted and flagged dead that were eloquently stated and/or just an opinion.

Mere opinion is not very valuable. If you want to post something that goes against the grain and actually convince people, you have to tailor it to the audience.

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#97

Post by 3131s »

kortilla wrote: post #73
3131s wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did, together with their buddy Bandar bin Sultan. Why exactly do you think they didn't bother going after the person who funded the hijackers directly, and actively hid this information in the 9/11 "28 pages" for years and years?

But that’s lame even for a conspiracy. Step 1 if it was a conspiracy would have been certainly to go after the funders because they were loose ends.

You don't know who you're talking about. Prince Bandar is not going to become a "loose end", they'd sooner off Bush himself.

If you or I had transferred $130,000 into the accounts of two of the hijackers just before the attack, do you think we'd be roaming around freely today? This is a billionaire arms trafficker, not some pleb.

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#98

Post by howlgarnish »

AntiImperialist wrote: post #91
forgingahead wrote: post #56

Gottlieb wanted to create a way to seize control of people's minds, and he realized it was a two-part process. First, you had to blast away the existing mind. Second, you had to find a way to insert a new mind into that resulting void. You don't need LSD for this, just expose yourself to media (news, social media, "influencers", etc) and they will helpfully convince you that everything you thought before you encounte…

On a related note: one of the funniest things as a non-westerner to me is that a majority of westerners are convinced that when they vote, if they vote for policies that favor their own country, their own well-being, it is wrong. Here's a hint for those who are struggling: if you're convinced that you should vote against yourself, you've been brainwashed by your enemies. To those who are feeling anger after reading m…

Most policies aren't that clear cut. For example, if you vote for free trade, it's probably a win for your own country in the aggregate and hence a win for everybody long term, but it can have major negative impacts on individuals or even communities in the short to medium term.

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#99

Post by pjc50 »

AntiImperialist wrote: post #91
forgingahead wrote: post #56

Gottlieb wanted to create a way to seize control of people's minds, and he realized it was a two-part process. First, you had to blast away the existing mind. Second, you had to find a way to insert a new mind into that resulting void. You don't need LSD for this, just expose yourself to media (news, social media, "influencers", etc) and they will helpfully convince you that everything you thought before you encounte…

On a related note: one of the funniest things as a non-westerner to me is that a majority of westerners are convinced that when they vote, if they vote for policies that favor their own country, their own well-being, it is wrong. Here's a hint for those who are struggling: if you're convinced that you should vote against yourself, you've been brainwashed by your enemies. To those who are feeling anger after reading m…

> majority of westerners are convinced that when they vote, if they vote for policies that favor their own country, their own well-being, it is wrong.

Think about this for one second and it's obviously not true. A majority? Against "their own well being"?

It's a misrepresentation of the anti-majoritarianism and anti-nationalism that says that it's necessary to consider whether what you're advocating has major negative effects on other people for minor or illusory benefits to yourself.

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#100

Post by howlgarnish »

macdust wrote: post #95

Why is this a legitimate topic on a forum that forbids trafficking in what are labelled "conspiracy theories." The net effect of allowing a discussion of this sort is to restrict discussion to the few fragments of the record of MKULTRA that were allowed to survive. Mr. Kinzer's book does not hint at how horrible, extensive, successful, or powerful the program was, nor does it show any cognizance of actual techniques…

I genuinely don't understand what you're trying to say. Most of the records were destroyed and we're trying to piece together the evidence. What is the "truth" that we are "not allowed" to bring up?
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