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The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

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Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#31

Post by rl3 »

varispeed wrote: post #15
titzer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure the CIA has done a ton of crazy shit. They should be subject to oversight and accountability, but abolishing them won't accomplish much other than introducing a massive blindspot in national security.

That's like supporting a protection racket... Wow.

>That's like supporting a protection racket... Wow.

Precisely. A mere sample of the protection afforded:

This same former intelligence official is “adamant” that evidence of such extraordinary renditions within the United States does not exist. It would be a “huge leap” for Chinese intelligence to shift from employing extreme pressure tactics to performing actual hands-on kidnappings in the United States, the former official says. “You want to come to this country and start kidnapping and killing people? Game on.”

[0] https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/29/the-disappeared-china-r...

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#32

Post by bryanrasmussen »

seppin wrote: post #24
varispeed wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like supporting a protection racket... Wow.

A protection racket implies the "threat" is fake or choreographed. Are you implying China isn't hacking America, or pushing out it's maritime borders, or threatening US allies? These are all engineered threats somehow?

I can't help thinking China hacking America is part of the NSA profile, and I don't think the CIA is needed to tell anyone that China is pushing out it's maritime borders or threatening U.S allies that's more like what reading the news is for. I suppose there could be a need for analysis of these events, but the analysis doesn't really seem to be part of the reason why people sometimes think the CIA should be abolished.

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#33

Post by SoSoRoCoCo »

Wonnk13 wrote: post #7

With Oregon legalizing magic mushrooms my interest in psychedelics has been piqued again. very keen to read more about all of this.

I want to read this book, but I'm not sure I can handle details of what happened to people. I'm more interesting in (a) how the authors obtained documents of such horrific experiments, and (b) how we still allow insane covert CIA stuff like this to go on, because I certainly believe that haven't stopped.

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#34

Post by seppin »

colonelanguz wrote: post #30
seppin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A protection racket implies the "threat" is fake or choreographed. Are you implying China isn't hacking America, or pushing out it's maritime borders, or threatening US allies? These are all engineered threats somehow?

> A protection racket implies the "threat" is fake or choreographed. Actually it doesn't

You're right:

"Through the credible threat of violence, the racketeers deter people from swindling, robbing, injuring, sabotaging or otherwise harming their clients."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_racket

It implies that the protector has the absolute ability to control if an attack occurs or not. So if the CIA had a little more budget, they would have stopped 9/11. Because they had the ability to, they just didn't.

Is that what you are saying?

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#35

Post by seppin »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #32
seppin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A protection racket implies the "threat" is fake or choreographed. Are you implying China isn't hacking America, or pushing out it's maritime borders, or threatening US allies? These are all engineered threats somehow?

I can't help thinking China hacking America is part of the NSA profile, and I don't think the CIA is needed to tell anyone that China is pushing out it's maritime borders or threatening U.S allies that's more like what reading the news is for. I suppose there could be a need for analysis of these events, but the analysis doesn't really seem to be part of the reason why people sometimes think the CIA should be abolish…

My point was a simple one, spying will always occur. If people are arguing it should be the exclusive purview of autocrats, and that would somehow improve the state of the world, I would disagree.

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#36

Post by baybal2 »

titzer wrote: post #9
dls2016 wrote: post #6

The CIA should absolutely be abolished.

For sure the CIA has done a ton of crazy shit. They should be subject to oversight and accountability, but abolishing them won't accomplish much other than introducing a massive blindspot in national security.

And so told the KGB, after the soviet union disbandment. I don't have to remind people where it went from there.

At least, back in union's times few KGB generals were abducted from time to time, and tortured to death when they felt it was becoming too menacing to the state at large, and that was a natural check on its power.

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#37

Post by AndrewBissell »

SoSoRoCoCo wrote: post #33
Wonnk13 wrote: post #7

With Oregon legalizing magic mushrooms my interest in psychedelics has been piqued again. very keen to read more about all of this.

I want to read this book, but I'm not sure I can handle details of what happened to people. I'm more interesting in (a) how the authors obtained documents of such horrific experiments, and (b) how we still allow insane covert CIA stuff like this to go on, because I certainly believe that haven't stopped.

Tom O'Neill's 'CHAOS' is a good read along the lines of "they haven't stopped."

So is Dave McGowan's "Programmed to Kill" but that's an even more brutal read.

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#39

Post by baybal2 »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #4

> I think it creates a much fuller and more perplexing picture of a person who lived such different sides of his life. In the long run, in the cosmic sense, I think you can say that commitment to a cause always gives you the justification for immoral acts. And patriotism is among the most seductive of those causes because it posits the nation as a value that's so transcendent that anything done in its service is virt…

Dulles would've been more successful as a circus player, yet the understanding how easily politicians, and generals bought into his utter bullshit is even more unnerving.

If he got to do succeed with it, you can now feel that you have to give gravity to claims of KGB defectors how USSR's influence operators were running circles around USA's political establishment.

The leadership in the business of employing hardcore, weaponized bullshit will certainly never be on the side of Countries of the Free World.

Re: The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poisoner in Chief'

#40

Post by 3131s »

seppin wrote: post #24
varispeed wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like supporting a protection racket... Wow.

A protection racket implies the "threat" is fake or choreographed. Are you implying China isn't hacking America, or pushing out it's maritime borders, or threatening US allies? These are all engineered threats somehow?

A whole lot of these threats are manufactured. You know that members of the Bush administration helped orchestrate the 9/11 attacks, right?
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