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1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

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Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#161

Post by _qulr »

Mary-Jane wrote: post #92
kyriee wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s seldom mentioned when talking about unemployment. Particularly when it comes to titles, so it’s fair to say excluding the hopeless from unemployment makes it a misleading metric

Which again, has been the case for a very long time. The participation rate has been tracked for as long; rather than changing how unemployment is calculated the media could just reporting that metric instead. Seems like a simpler solution.

> Which again, has been the case for a very long time.

We all seem to be admitting that it's a bad, misleading statistic. So why are we so committed to keeping it around forever? Why not change the definition?

People say "for historical comparison", but what's the point of a historical comparison of a statistic that we all admit now is bad and misleading?

The fact that something has always been done a certain way is no justification for continuing to do it, especially if the initial decision was misguided in some way.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#162

Post by nickthemagicman »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #160
nickthemagicman wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed the policies that destroyed the economy and put 100 million people into poverty should be lifted?

As you are fully aware, that is not what I said. Pretending otherwise doesn't make you smart.

What you said is super abstract vague hand wavy and not very well thought out.

You're saying restrict economic activity for the pandemic but still have a good economy and that doesn't make sense.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#163

Post by jahaja »

batt4good wrote: post #76
kiba wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do? Who are these people?

Well yeah, animals that can't hunt or fend for themselves are killed by predators or starve to death. Humans are animals. If I have a family, I will care for my kin before strangers who don't know any better or are too stupid to help themselves. At a certain scale, helping hopeless people starts to harm society. This is true regardless of your political persuasion. Republicans point to never ending handouts and democ…

Uhm, blatant Social-Darwinism is barely down-voted at HN now?

That entire post is absolute garbage and bullshit and have no relation to history with the gem being this: "helping hopeless people starts to harm society". You do realize that we are all "useless" for the first 15-20 years? Not to mention the empirical evidence disproving that claim that you seemingly don't give a shit about; like other countries than the US.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#164

Post by Kye »

mxcrossb wrote: post #68
Retric wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of hopeless people are a long way from retirement. Homeless, long term disability, or people living off of their parents etc. America is rich enough that bring poor represents a huge range of lifestyles from young raft guides living in leaky cabins to just about everything else.

> The majority of hopeless people are a long way from retirement Source?

Is there a reason you didn't ask for a source on the numbers in the initial claim they responded to? The claim about seniors representing the majority contradicts my own understanding, so I would have started there.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#165

Post by sokoloff »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #153
sokoloff wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be measures to help bartenders remain employed while closing down bars? I’m struggling to imagine what you have in mind here.

In many other developed countries there is some kind of furlough scheme in place. Like here in the UK - businesses which can’t remain open (or have to temporarily downscale) can opt to place their staff on furlough and have their wages paid by the government through to the end of this year.

I've never understood the exact mechanics/limits of those schemes, but that is exactly what I was missing as it's (literally) a foreign concept to me. Thank you.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#166

Post by germinalphrase »

mythrwy wrote: post #122
kmonsen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone that votes republican. Even many centrist democrats think so.

Everyone who votes republican doesn't believe that. Maybe some republicans simply think realistic solutions are not those you believe will work.

I’m from a Republican family in a culturally conservative part of the upper Midwest. It’s disappointing to see the national level Republican Party so diminished as to be seemingly nihilistic. Unless it falls in the bucket of tax cuts or deregulation, there seems to be so little positive vision of what the future should look like.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#167

Post by [deleted] »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #111
seibelj wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has the most progressive tax system in the world - far more than Europe. The middle and lower classes pay basically 0 tax, or even get refunds (negative taxes), while the rich pay basically all taxes https://www.economist.com/united-states/2017/11/23/american-... The middle and lower classes in Europe pay very high tax rates, but get a lot in return. The left in America is promising European-style safety nets…

Is it not the case that taxpayers in the U.S. can write-off interest on their mortgages? That's insanely regressive. My understanding is that it's all the deductions that make the US system on the whole quite regressive. In any case US taxpayers don't appear to be getting good value for their money. They do have a pretty insane military though... The Economist article is paywalled so I can't read beyond the intro. Bu…

[deleted]

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#168

Post by da_big_ghey »

maroonblazer wrote: post #55

There's been a growing number of voices[0][1][2] speaking to not only inequality but also the meritocratic system that seems to have positive feedback loops that worsens inequality by precluding opportunities for those who don't fit the mold of the college education track. I think it's only a matter of time (within the next decade?) where this comes to a head and results in some shock to the system that forces a corr…

Meritorcacy is the worst form of allocating resources except for all those other forms, I'd say. How else would you suggest doing it? A meritocracy at least gives people a way to strive to do better. A system in which one cannot raise his chances of success by improving himself is likely even worse than what we have.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#169

Post by da_big_ghey »

germinalphrase wrote: post #166
mythrwy wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone who votes republican doesn't believe that. Maybe some republicans simply think realistic solutions are not those you believe will work.

I’m from a Republican family in a culturally conservative part of the upper Midwest. It’s disappointing to see the national level Republican Party so diminished as to be seemingly nihilistic. Unless it falls in the bucket of tax cuts or deregulation, there seems to be so little positive vision of what the future should look like.

I've seen the same among most Republicans I know. They're despondent because the Republican party these days is just fighting against the far-leftists that are taking over the Democrat party. It's basically a one-way ratchet leftward: the Democrats get power and move stuff, then the Republicans get power and just prevent movement for a few years. The Libertarian party is the only one that's truly fighting for a better future with things like small government, gun rights, and lower taxes. The LP presents a positive vision of the future and a plan to get there that I like. So I'll keep voting Libertarian, even though I know we have no chance.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#170

Post by maroonblazer »

da_big_ghey wrote: post #168
maroonblazer wrote: post #55

There's been a growing number of voices[0][1][2] speaking to not only inequality but also the meritocratic system that seems to have positive feedback loops that worsens inequality by precluding opportunities for those who don't fit the mold of the college education track. I think it's only a matter of time (within the next decade?) where this comes to a head and results in some shock to the system that forces a corr…

Meritorcacy is the worst form of allocating resources except for all those other forms, I'd say. How else would you suggest doing it? A meritocracy at least gives people a way to strive to do better. A system in which one cannot raise his chances of success by improving himself is likely even worse than what we have.

One place to look is other countries, e.g. Germany. They have alternatives to the college/university track that enable people who don't fit that mold to still prosper.

The way the U.S. is structured it's as if the only route to success is becoming a professional basketball player in the NBA. Oh, you don't happen to be extra-tall or able to shoot a basket? You must not be working hard enough.

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