Live data from Hacker News

1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

cbsnews.com

61–70 of 186 posts

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#61
post #2

[flagged]

Seriously? Grow up man.

I do want to thank you for saying this out loud since the downvotes don't really give me an opportunity to respond.

I've soaked up American media and politics for the past four years. I originally got into it because I had some personal life events that made me interested in it. Since I started paying more attention, an attention that has risen both steadily and sharply over time, it has noticeably decreased my quality of life overall. I would get upset, frustrated, and overall I've been skeptical of connecting with people. The byproduct was that my awareness around narratives, misinformation, and propaganda has grown and I started to understand that this was largely just the status quo now. That view favors no political party whatsoever.

I'm from the South/Midwest but live on the coast and I served in the military. Because of that I have had this huge array of friends that hail from all walks of life whom I had no problem getting along with. I've now lost lifelong friends over their or my political views, I've felt disappointment in people (and they have felt it in me), and really it's alienated me very much from the American way of life in general. I've always had different views from my friends because I don't fit very squarely in many of our political categories and for a long time that was okay. These days disagreement comes part and parcel with some sense of morality and unfortunately in our political dichotomy that cuts both ways and leaves someone like me in the middle.

At some point I came to the realization that I could either become an ex-patriot or totally disconnect and buy some time. Surely some folks would find my disconnection so abhorrent that they may choose to alienate me anyway, but for my own mental well-being I decided to deactivate my social media accounts, block all breaking news, american news, and political commentary, as well as cancel my streaming services (other than Hulu, I can't miss Rick and Morty!)

I'd like to bury my parents before I leave this country, so if I can buy some time I'd like to do that and this has made a world of a difference in my day to day life. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to stay up on some statistics like this one. I'm still a citizen and I still want to help people where I can, I just can't be subjected to the daily onslaught of politically focused, shifting morality.

I have more interesting observations, like how the news looks without being able to see Twitter, or things my friends have done to keep me included on the more positive sides of things happening on social media, so feel free to ask questions.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#62
post #50

Personally I believe that in some ways, both extreme political views are right. First, in my opinion, basic income is absolutely needed, and has been for quite some time. Not only the pandemic, but also the severe state of the long-term debt cycle, and the increasing automation, as well as existing social inequality, all make basic income necessary if we want to avoid more extreme levels of homelessness. And it seems…

Americans are primarily disagreeing on how to finance these ideals.

They are also afraid of the following things:

- Consequences for using free money the wrong way. We've already seen people imprisoned for using stimulus money[0] that was freely given out with no real checks. And that was from a completely right-wing administration and Department of Justice! People know they'll take the money, they just don't want the opportunity for the state to judge them for its "generosity". It's either no strings attached or not done at all.

- A diminishing set of options. People don't like consolidation of control when the state nationalizes an area, distorts a market with its unlimited resources but is also not very competitive while retaining its ability to imprison and kill people. So people are afraid of that.

Underneath all the arguments about empathy, redistribution, how it is actually financed or expropriated, are those concerns.

[0] site search of doj.gov "ppp indict" https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk009z-HSGv1tJet83_Rj...

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#63

There's been a growing number of voices[0][1][2] speaking to not only inequality but also the meritocratic system that seems to have positive feedback loops that worsens inequality by precluding opportunities for those who don't fit the mold of the college education track. I think it's only a matter of time (within the next decade?) where this comes to a head and results in some shock to the system that forces a corr…

From "Down with meritocracy" (Thu 28 Jun 2001 21.59 EDT):

The book was a satire meant to be a warning (which needless to say has not been heeded) against what might happen to Britain between 1958 and the imagined final revolt against the meritocracy in 2033.

Much that was predicted has already come about. It is highly unlikely the prime minister has read the book, but he has caught on to the word without realising the dangers of what he is advocating.

Underpinning my argument was a non-controversial historical analysis of what had been happening to society for more than a century before 1958, and most emphatically since the 1870s, when schooling was made compulsory and competitive entry to the civil service became the rule.

Until that time status was generally ascribed by birth. But irrespective of people's birth, status has gradually become more achievable.

It is good sense to appoint individual people to jobs on their merit. It is the opposite when those who are judged to have merit of a particular kind harden into a new social class without room in it for others.

Ability of a conventional kind, which used to be distributed between the classes more or less at random, has become much more highly concentrated by the engine of education.

...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/29/comment

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#64
post #52
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American news is the WWE of news. Nothing wrong with his position.

There is when he is asking someone else to summarize a story from an American news source because he is too stubborn to read it himself cause of his "principles".

I never said I had any "principles" that were at play here. I left a reply above that fully explains it. In the future, maybe give people some benefit of the doubt that they're not coming here in bad faith.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#65
post #34
post #12

"By comparison, the October jobless rate stood at 6.9%, down from 14.7% in April as workers regained jobs or gave up searching for work." I love how the hopeless are not counted as jobless.

Consistency in how statistics are measured is important. You can rag on the methods but without consistency it’d be meaningless. The majority of what you term as “hopeless” is seniors that are let go and eventually decide to retire rather than entering the work force at wages less than they earned previously. It’s not a bunch of disillusioned 20 somethings giving up on life.

Is there any data on U4 rates based off age demographics?

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American news is really bad, across the board — and doubly so for coverage of issues around and within America. If you want to find out what’s happening I recommend some combination of NPR, some Canadian news (I like the Globe and Mail) and probably Al Jazeera English.

NPR is American.

Yeah I know, I called them out as an exception, PBS is decent too. I was referring to "American [mainstream] news." I recognize I wasn't clear, so my bad.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#67

What is that almost a 100 million people? Seems like a lot. I wonder how many have families and kids. Such a bummer. At least Granny is safe!

Nah.

The US has pursued a spectacularly inept constellation of policies that have killed granny and created an economic disaster.

The economy can't recover until the pandemic is controlled. Doing nothing about the pandemic to 'save the economy' will only make both the pandemic and the economy worse.

Making enough N95 masks, and forcing people to wear them, would have both kept granny safe and saved the economy. But, that didn't happen, so the US is stuck with the worst of both worlds.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#68
post #59
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consistency in how statistics are measured is important. You can rag on the methods but without consistency it’d be meaningless. The majority of what you term as “hopeless” is seniors that are let go and eventually decide to retire rather than entering the work force at wages less than they earned previously. It’s not a bunch of disillusioned 20 somethings giving up on life.

The majority of hopeless people are a long way from retirement. Homeless, long term disability, or people living off of their parents etc. America is rich enough that bring poor represents a huge range of lifestyles from young raft guides living in leaky cabins to just about everything else.

> The majority of hopeless people are a long way from retirement

Source?

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#69
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relative economic standing != absolute economic standing. Statistical measures of poverty are set in terms of being able to afford the basic necessities of life, such as food, housing, medical care, transport, education and communications. Relative standing is irrelevant. Further, having 10 times more income (or wealth) than subsistence farmer in sub-Saharan Africa is meaningless if your cost of living is 1000 times…

People don't have access to food? Sounds like that would be a self correcting problem if remotely true. The problem with asking the government to fix this in some way is that you'll most likely ensure the absolute floor of the pricing with be set higher. It's all those beautiful first world regulations we set out subsiding the price paid that ensure pricing is high, not capitalism. I'm not saying remove them but if w…

Did you intentionally or unintentionally paraphrase Ebenezer Scrooge just then?

If unintentional, perhaps you should consider your life and behavior in view of the three ghosts referenced in that novella.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#70
post #54
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has sadly been the case for a long time. Some people try to defend it for various reasons and keeping track of this figure isn't a problem for me personally, but calling it the unemployment rate and acting like it's representative of reality bugs the heck out of me

It is reality. What it reflects about reality may not be immediately obvious but that's true of most metrics. It's important to understand that the value of the unemployment rate is not the absolute number but its change over time. We also have other metrics published alongside the unemployment rate, like labor participation.

It’s seldom mentioned when talking about unemployment. Particularly when it comes to titles, so it’s fair to say excluding the hopeless from unemployment makes it a misleading metric
Post reply on HN