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1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

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Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#91

Post by TulliusCicero »

vmception wrote: post #62
ilaksh wrote: post #50

Personally I believe that in some ways, both extreme political views are right. First, in my opinion, basic income is absolutely needed, and has been for quite some time. Not only the pandemic, but also the severe state of the long-term debt cycle, and the increasing automation, as well as existing social inequality, all make basic income necessary if we want to avoid more extreme levels of homelessness. And it seems…

Americans are primarily disagreeing on how to finance these ideals. They are also afraid of the following things: - Consequences for using free money the wrong way. We've already seen people imprisoned for using stimulus money[0] that was freely given out with no real checks. And that was from a completely right-wing administration and Department of Justice! People know they'll take the money, they just don't want th…

> already seen people imprisoned for using stimulus money that was freely given out with no real checks.

Sorry, what? I must've missed this.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#92

Post by Mary-Jane »

kyriee wrote: post #70
qppo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is reality. What it reflects about reality may not be immediately obvious but that's true of most metrics. It's important to understand that the value of the unemployment rate is not the absolute number but its change over time. We also have other metrics published alongside the unemployment rate, like labor participation.

It’s seldom mentioned when talking about unemployment. Particularly when it comes to titles, so it’s fair to say excluding the hopeless from unemployment makes it a misleading metric

Which again, has been the case for a very long time. The participation rate has been tracked for as long; rather than changing how unemployment is calculated the media could just reporting that metric instead. Seems like a simpler solution.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#93

Post by lopmotr »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #9
mcbutterbunz wrote: post #4

If you’re a capitalist or a socialist or somewhere in between, I think we should try to find common ground that this isn’t a good position for society or the future.

Having spoken with someone today, at length, that thinks any improvement in the current situation is “socialism”, I think common ground won’t be found with some folks (and that’s okay, as long as you can get a majority onboard). You have to do the right thing regardless (go to the mat for overwhelming fiscal policy stimulus firepower short term, and driving towards improved policy long term, increasing the minimum wa…

"improvement"? The fact that you don't seem to see your own bias shows that you might be part of the "no common ground" problem. Are you willing to accept that changes which you see as making things worse might actually be improvements? Even changes favored by that person you spoke with?

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#94

Post by lopmotr »

jrobn wrote: post #17
toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having spoken with someone today, at length, that thinks any improvement in the current situation is “socialism”, I think common ground won’t be found with some folks (and that’s okay, as long as you can get a majority onboard). You have to do the right thing regardless (go to the mat for overwhelming fiscal policy stimulus firepower short term, and driving towards improved policy long term, increasing the minimum wa…

“Some folks” is approaching near 50/50 split of the population of the US who have been led to believe “socialism” is worse than death. I know so, because my friend goes to church and they are now talking about this in their sermons...God is a Republican apparently.

I think you need data to support that 50% claim. Otherwise you could just as easily claim the other 50% thinks the same way about fascism. Maybe it's just extremists you're looking at.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#95

Post by vmception »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #91
vmception wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are primarily disagreeing on how to finance these ideals. They are also afraid of the following things: - Consequences for using free money the wrong way. We've already seen people imprisoned for using stimulus money[0] that was freely given out with no real checks. And that was from a completely right-wing administration and Department of Justice! People know they'll take the money, they just don't want th…

> already seen people imprisoned for using stimulus money that was freely given out with no real checks. Sorry, what? I must've missed this.

site search of ppp indict doj.gov (oddly, google doesn't seem to index actual site searches of doj.gov, like site:www.doj.gov)

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk009z-HSGv1tJet83_Rj...

with the point not about rationalizing how much you agree with the substance of fraud, but about the state not having created the opportunity to feel defrauded and levy greater charges 'on behalf of the people'

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#96

Post by spaetzleesser »

troughway wrote: post #7
mcbutterbunz wrote: post #4

If you’re a capitalist or a socialist or somewhere in between, I think we should try to find common ground that this isn’t a good position for society or the future.

Nope, the middle class is living now better than kings have lived in the past. Let that thought wash over you and don't think twice about the jobless statistics whatsoever.

Are you giving the same line to high income earners who are complaining about high taxes?

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#97

Post by yalogin »

Income and wealth disparity is the biggest problem in the US and it’s not given the attention it deserves. The republicans have no interest in addressing it, in fact they actively make it worse every chance they get. The Democrats want to address it but cannot focus. It’s what is causing these symptoms like trump in the country.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#98

Post by simongr3dal »

refurb wrote: post #83
llamataboot wrote: post #75

Some things are already starting to give way pretty loudly, and others are yet to come. You simply cannot maintain a democratic society (for whatever nominal value of democracy you want) with these levels on inequality and non-shared misery. I’m not sure what the next decade holds for the US, but it’s either gonna be some major-scale reinvestment and redistribution or it’s gonna get pretty damn unstable.

Prior to Covid the unemployment rate was the lowest it’s been in 40+ years and wage growth was 6%+ in 2019. The issues this article highlights are not systemic, they are because of the pandemic.

Wage growth and gdp increases don't really do much for a lot of people if inequality is high.

Unemployments statistics also differ heavily on what the specific statistic consider unemployment to be.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#99

Post by [deleted] »

jrobn wrote: post #17
toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having spoken with someone today, at length, that thinks any improvement in the current situation is “socialism”, I think common ground won’t be found with some folks (and that’s okay, as long as you can get a majority onboard). You have to do the right thing regardless (go to the mat for overwhelming fiscal policy stimulus firepower short term, and driving towards improved policy long term, increasing the minimum wa…

“Some folks” is approaching near 50/50 split of the population of the US who have been led to believe “socialism” is worse than death. I know so, because my friend goes to church and they are now talking about this in their sermons...God is a Republican apparently.

[deleted]

Re: 1 in 4 Americans are jobless or earning poverty-level wages, new study finds

#100

Post by seibelj »

llamataboot wrote: post #75

Some things are already starting to give way pretty loudly, and others are yet to come. You simply cannot maintain a democratic society (for whatever nominal value of democracy you want) with these levels on inequality and non-shared misery. I’m not sure what the next decade holds for the US, but it’s either gonna be some major-scale reinvestment and redistribution or it’s gonna get pretty damn unstable.

The US has the most progressive tax system in the world - far more than Europe. The middle and lower classes pay basically 0 tax, or even get refunds (negative taxes), while the rich pay basically all taxes https://www.economist.com/united-states/2017/11/23/american-...

The middle and lower classes in Europe pay very high tax rates, but get a lot in return. The left in America is promising European-style safety nets without any tax raises - but the rich simply can’t afford this amount of safety net. Bernie was at least honest in that he plainly said new, broad-based taxes would be necessary to fund his proposals.

Edit: HN is hilarious because people downvote facts they don’t like. At least admit reality to yourself - or post a comment that refutes the statistics.

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