The elite don't have student debt. This argument is dumb.
Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
111–120 of 147 posts
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you have a citation to back this up? I admit my knowledge is anecdotal, but I know somebody in their 20s, who went to college, and is in debt that would be cancelled. This person was the first in their family to go to college, and was unable to find a job in their field. Most of this persons peers are in a similar situation with respect to debt and being unable to find jobs in their field. The jobs these people ha…
Anecdotally, all of my friends who went to college are clearing 90k a year with many over 200k once you include stock options. One friend is a published expert in their field. Out of all my friends who attended college only one didn't get into a profitable field but their degree was in civil planning and their parents are going to buy them a vineyard to run. But again, just anecdotal.
Do these friends have debt?
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
> from society forcing them to get an expensive degree. How does “society” force someone to get an expensive degree? It is always a choice
This is a pretty unrealistic position. Society also doesn't "force" you to get a job that doesn't make you happy. But speaking realistically, society forces people to do many things without using direct physicality or threats. Your position is common among "personal responsibility" absolutists, which, like most absolutism, doesn't really work.
> Society also doesn't "force" you to get a job that doesn't make you happy.
1. Absolutely 2. What’s this about a job making you happy?
> But speaking realistically, society forces people to do many things without using direct physicality or threats.
I don’t get this line of thinking. I can come up with compulsory taxation, but you can always move to another society. What has society forced you to do?
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
God forbid the rich get richer. Meanwhile, the 60% of people you didn't mention - the ones with only 40% of debt owed - are in a crisis. You are saying that we must deny those people assistance, because we would also end up helping others who aren't in crisis, and doing so is unpalatable. So where is the solution for the people in crisis?
God forbid that the rich be asked to pay anything at all for this incredible and unnecessary gift the people give them? What would make more sense would be targeted debt relief indexed on familial wealth, student earnings, and the institution's median outcome for the given degree program. Is there any room for accountability, or is the indiscriminate dumping of money out of a helicopter the only solution we're allowe…
Go right ahead and consider, and even promote, another option.
That's not what I have been seeing here. What I have been seeing is promotion of doing nothing at all, simply because the option being presented isn't perfect.
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
God forbid that the rich be asked to pay anything at all for this incredible and unnecessary gift the people give them? What would make more sense would be targeted debt relief indexed on familial wealth, student earnings, and the institution's median outcome for the given degree program. Is there any room for accountability, or is the indiscriminate dumping of money out of a helicopter the only solution we're allowe…
Go right ahead and consider, and even promote, another option. That's not what I have been seeing here. What I have been seeing is promotion of doing nothing at all, simply because the option being presented isn't perfect.
Those people are right.
The data does not support the idea that student debt should be a top priority for anyone trying to maximize the impact of raining dollars onto the public. I'm presenting data not for the purpose of showing that there's a better way to distribute loan relief, but to show how incredible it is to claim this is motivated by desire to give relief to needy people (and therefore given top priority)
It's decidedly not the needy who'd receive the most relief from this policy.
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry if I haven't heard enough of this crazy talk yet to understand it. You're saying that residential property gets a special restriction on how people who own something are able to use it or enter into agreements on how they can charge others for the use of it? Who occupies a house then? Only the owner?
> Sorry if I haven't heard enough of this crazy talk yet to understand it. I get that this proposal is a significant change from the status quo . That's the point. The status quo has some glaring issues. I understand it's difficult to take proposals for big changes seriously, but does that mean we should not take the problems of our current system seriously? > You're saying that residential property gets a special re…
So, no one could move to say, a different city, until they found a house they could buy?
I really think you need to think about unintended consequences. Not even unintended -- like, kindergarten 0th order effects.
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here, let's make this more concrete so we're not debating over intangibles. How much of your salary are you willing to give for this student loan forgiveness program? $10,000? every year? Not that much? Why are you being so selfish?
$1.5 trillion is less than what was spent on the Iraq war, and just two years of US military spending. We can make it work without simplistically raising everyone's taxes by $1.5T/everyone. The hardest step is to change people's political priorities so that they actually include making more people better off. Oh, and to answer your actual question, yes, I'd much rather have $300 of my tax bill every paycheck go towar…
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Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Go right ahead and consider, and even promote, another option. That's not what I have been seeing here. What I have been seeing is promotion of doing nothing at all, simply because the option being presented isn't perfect.
Those people are right. The data does not support the idea that student debt should be a top priority for anyone trying to maximize the impact of raining dollars onto the public. I'm presenting data not for the purpose of showing that there's a better way to distribute loan relief, but to show how incredible it is to claim this is motivated by desire to give relief to needy people (and therefore given top priority) I…
> It's decidedly not the needy who'd receive the most relief from this policy.
That was never the claim. Student loan forgiveness is not universal basic income, medicare, food stamps, etc. It is not designed to overcome poverty. That's a totally separate problem that needs attention.
Are you saying you expect every tax dollar to go to the poor first? Clearly you aren't basing your expectations on the status quo: We spend $700 billion on defense, and $350 billion on welfare (not including medicaid).
Just because there are more important problems to solve does not mean we should ignore this one.
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Sorry if I haven't heard enough of this crazy talk yet to understand it. I get that this proposal is a significant change from the status quo . That's the point. The status quo has some glaring issues. I understand it's difficult to take proposals for big changes seriously, but does that mean we should not take the problems of our current system seriously? > You're saying that residential property gets a special re…
So, no one could move to say, a different city, until they found a house they could buy? I really think you need to think about unintended consequences. Not even unintended -- like, kindergarten 0th order effects.
No one can move to a different city until they can find a house or apartment they can rent. The only significant difference between buying property and renting it is that renters get to exploit tenants.
> I really think you need to think about unintended consequences. Not even unintended -- like, kindergarten 0th order effects.
Like I said, this is a serious idea that has existed for decades, not some trivial thing I pulled out of my ass. Just because it doesn't instantly appeal to you does not mean it is worthless.
I'm not going to sit here and step you through every consideration made on this topic. If you are honestly interested, you can go read about it yourself.
Frankly, your decision to talk down to me like I'm some kind of thoughtless child merely stifles the conversation for both parties. Kindly get off your high horse.
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hold my beer while I go get in financial trouble.
Bingo... If student loans are forgiven, I’m signing up for aviation school just for the thrill of it.
How is it any different than getting into credit card debt or taking out a loan for a Ferrari?
Banks are _supposed_ to evaluate the risk of a loan, not just give it out without consideration.