Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Opinions like this are why we can't have nice things in the USA. People look at some subgroup getting a benefit and are encouraged to think "Why should they get this thing when I get nothing? These people don't deserve it"" That is the price of diversity. Diversity, which is neither bad nor good , has benefits and costs. My very diverse country invented jazz music and snowboarding and the Internet. We also lack the…
So eliminating poverty would eliminate diversity? Nonsense.
Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
101–110 of 147 posts
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nope, I didn't say that we should not help ever unless it benefits everyone. I'm saying that when you implicitly pick a group to help over others, you'd better be careful about the incentives and signals it gives on what you want to happen next time. As I said, it would be more reasonable to give everyone a credit, not forgive debt.
But why is it more reasonable to give a credit? The goal is to reduce the amount of people who are putting off major life decisions because they are deep in debt from society forcing them to get an expensive degree. The people who have gotten out from under that burden are no long bringing society down. I don't get a check from the unemployment office after the fact if they ever increase the amount of unemployment pe…
How does “society” force someone to get an expensive degree?
It is always a choice
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#103When everyone was praising the billionaire who paid for the student loans of that graduating class a few years ago (who by the way is under investigation for tax evasion), I raised the point that this might not be seen as fair by everyone and I was immediately criticized by some friends. I cautioned that it's fine for a private individual to do whatever he wants, but watch out if you apply this some day to the govern…
> Imagine how you would feel if you were from a family that had scrimped and saved to send you to college, you worked night jobs, etc. Only to find that at the end everyone else who had taken out loans had them forgiven (basically). An old, old complaint. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Workers_in_the_... ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who…
Yes, please do whatever you want with your own money
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Redistributing wealth is literally what powers civilization :) And, if you do it right over the long time you create more wealth, more specialization, more complexity... Now if you overdo it that is really bad... but I look at inequality right now and wonder if I should start up a guillotine shop.
If your premise is true, then the most redistributive governments would be the most civilized. 20th century communism would not provide a lot of evidence in favor of that theory.
Communism is way way too much, and ignores fundamental aspects of humanity.
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
But why is it more reasonable to give a credit? The goal is to reduce the amount of people who are putting off major life decisions because they are deep in debt from society forcing them to get an expensive degree. The people who have gotten out from under that burden are no long bringing society down. I don't get a check from the unemployment office after the fact if they ever increase the amount of unemployment pe…
> from society forcing them to get an expensive degree. How does “society” force someone to get an expensive degree? It is always a choice
Your position is common among "personal responsibility" absolutists, which, like most absolutism, doesn't really work.
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
So eliminating poverty would eliminate diversity? Nonsense.
I'm not sure who you are responding to here - I said nothing like that.
> We also lack the social trust and cohesion of much less diverse countries like Japan or the Scandinavian countries at whose social welfare programs we marvel.
> Personally, I'll take the jazz music and snowboarding even if it means fighting over what should be basic components of the welfare state.
So what I took you to be saying is that "jazz music and snowboarding" come from a diversity present because of the lack of social programs like welfare. What "diversity" is that if not that which includes poverty?
What I'm trying to say is that it's ridiculous to assert that "jazz music and snowboarding" come from the lack of a welfare state. Nowhere do you illustrate how we can't have both.
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
hyperbole notwithstanding, the greatest share of the debt is owed by the minority who has the greatest ability to pay. That's the salient point. The lower earning majority has lower debt on a per-capita and aggregated basis. This is certainly a benefit disproportionately for high earners from wealthy backgrounds.
God forbid the rich get richer. Meanwhile, the 60% of people you didn't mention - the ones with only 40% of debt owed - are in a crisis. You are saying that we must deny those people assistance, because we would also end up helping others who aren't in crisis, and doing so is unpalatable. So where is the solution for the people in crisis?
Is there any room for accountability, or is the indiscriminate dumping of money out of a helicopter the only solution we're allowed to consider?
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
What about those who worked hard and took a few more years to not take out a loan in the first place?
Good for you :)! I paid off my loans through a combination of hard work and luck. I'd love to say it was all me, but it wasn't, I had great role models, I am lucky enough to be born into a country with amazing infrastructure, and many other reasons that have very little to do with me... My question for you is do you want a stronger country? Or, just a stronger you? As a country are we just a bunch of people out for t…
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, you see, landlords are a classic edge case of property rights and unregulated Capitalism. Capitalism is praised as a motivator for people to contribute to society with the promise of fiscal returns. Landlords make zero contribution, while attaining huge returns. Abolishing landlords would accomplish one of Marx's most significant goals without completely throwing out property rights and capitalism. > How would…
Sorry if I haven't heard enough of this crazy talk yet to understand it. You're saying that residential property gets a special restriction on how people who own something are able to use it or enter into agreements on how they can charge others for the use of it? Who occupies a house then? Only the owner?
I get that this proposal is a significant change from the status quo. That's the point. The status quo has some glaring issues. I understand it's difficult to take proposals for big changes seriously, but does that mean we should not take the problems of our current system seriously?
> You're saying that residential property gets a special restriction on how people who own something are able to use it or enter into agreements on how they can charge others for the use of it?
Yes. Specifically, no one can enter an agreement where housing can be rented. The core idea is that housing can be owned and sold, just that it can't be rented. There can be some discussion as to whether short term contracts like hotels could be allowed, but they would have to be regulated to prevent abuse.
The only question left is what to do about extant rental contracts.
> Who occupies a house then? Only the owner?
The owner or a guest. That's how housing works outside renting.
If you can't charge rent on property, then you are incentivized to sell it, thereby flooding the home ownership market and lowering the cost of housing.
This is a concept that has been discussed at length elsewhere. I encourage you not to use me as your only source of education.
Re: Cancel student-loan debt? That’s making the working class subsidize the elite
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bingo... If student loans are forgiven, I’m signing up for aviation school just for the thrill of it.
I don't think you guys realize the loans would dry up for frivolous schooling. The bank would understand you could file for bankruptcy and evaluate the loan accordingly.