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I Miss Working from the Office

roguelazer.com

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Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#171

Post by [deleted] »

paul_f wrote: post #92
Jugurtha wrote: post #65

Yes. Some people on the internet were also advocating for a return to the office because people could not stand the loneliness anymore and need to interact socially. I had to point out that this was symptomatic of a poor social/family life [outside of work]. If someone is lonely working remotely and they miss humans, it is a sign the only humans they interacted with were colleagues. It's also a sign of what the perso…

This is a bit unfair. Many people socialized with the bowling team, through their church, at school, as part of a volunteer organization, etc, that may have also all shut down because of COVID.

[deleted]

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#172

Post by toyg »

donatj wrote: post #133
Jugurtha wrote: post #65

Yes. Some people on the internet were also advocating for a return to the office because people could not stand the loneliness anymore and need to interact socially. I had to point out that this was symptomatic of a poor social/family life [outside of work]. If someone is lonely working remotely and they miss humans, it is a sign the only humans they interacted with were colleagues. It's also a sign of what the perso…

I don’t follow. Why should where I spend the majority of my waking hours, the majority of my life in practical terms, not also be my primary source of socialization? I genuinely feel the opposite. Relying on your few off hours to satisfy your innate human need for socialization places an unhealthy demand on your off hours, not to mention an unfair demand on your friends and family. I am now forced to spend 8 hours a…

> Humans were never intended to spend so much time alone

Humans were also never intended to be forced to somehow "produce money" with other humans.

"Being a social animal" for millennia meant finding your role in a relatively small group of people who shared your basic values about survival and mores, and that you could observe and befriend (or fight) over a literal lifetime, while carrying out tasks that were directly linked to your survival. That differs significantly from industrialized societies. People you work with don't necessary share anything with you. Socialization has become rote and fake. Your tasks are often meaningless to you.

This creates a feeling of alienation and powerlessness in a lot of people. For them, staying at home meant reconnecting with tasks that carry actual meaning (improving their home, looking after their loved ones, etc). Their socialization might have actually increased.

Obviously, if you found the pre-covid arrangement meaningful and life-fulfilling, now you're unhappy that it was taken away from you.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#173

Post by bvcvbuiy »

bamboozled wrote: post #10

Thing I miss are: * Having someone clean my works space. My house gets dirtier now and I’m forever cleaning it, doing dishes. * The distinction between the beginning and end of my work day. * Having free space in my house. * Off the cuff dinner and drinks with colleagues. * No lag meetings and whiteboard sessions. * Having intervals apart from my family actually felt healthy, although we have adapted to being around…

* random stuffs happening in my life that I can enjoy on my own and tell my wife when I am back from work VS spend 24 hours a day with my wife

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#174

Post by Nursie »

donatj wrote: post #133
Jugurtha wrote: post #65

Yes. Some people on the internet were also advocating for a return to the office because people could not stand the loneliness anymore and need to interact socially. I had to point out that this was symptomatic of a poor social/family life [outside of work]. If someone is lonely working remotely and they miss humans, it is a sign the only humans they interacted with were colleagues. It's also a sign of what the perso…

I don’t follow. Why should where I spend the majority of my waking hours, the majority of my life in practical terms, not also be my primary source of socialization? I genuinely feel the opposite. Relying on your few off hours to satisfy your innate human need for socialization places an unhealthy demand on your off hours, not to mention an unfair demand on your friends and family. I am now forced to spend 8 hours a…

Because you're there to work.

Because you'll change employer, maybe frequently, and most of your relationships with colleagues will fall away when you do, where relationships with friends are lifelong.

WFH allows me to see more of my partner and my real friends in my local area, removing wasted commuting time into the bargain.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#175

Post by learc83 »

paul_f wrote: post #137
learc83 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t go hiking where you live? Hiking is a very low risk activity.

This is a discussion about socializing. A hike and a hiking group are different things. BTW, need to find a hiking group post COVID, that sounds like fun.

But a hiking group primarily socializes while hiking. A small group, social distancing outside is a very low risk activity that should allowed in most of the world outside periods of strict lockdowns.

Maybe in the OP’s case it’s the kind of thing where you take a group bus to a trail, and that’s the problem.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#176

Post by Nursie »

watwut wrote: post #102
w0utert wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand this comment, do you suggest all forms of social contacts are created equal and people should just replace the social interactions they used to have with co-workers by visiting their family more often, organizing more poker nights with friends or taking salsa classes or whatever? That makes absolutely no sense, these interactions are completely different from those you would have with your co-worke…

But the truth is, for many people colleagues are the only people they regularly interact with. Especially people who work a lot have basically non existent or purely formal other relationships. They don't even know how to relate to people outside of job setting.

That's a sad thing for them.

I wonder if the US long-hours culture contributes to this.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#177

Post by Symbiote »

learc83 wrote: post #160
Shacklz wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand how someone can work longer hours unwillingly when it's entirely in your control. I have that situation, but without the 'unwilling' part. In the office, I have often the situation "Gosh, I'd love to finish this, but if I don't catch the next train I have to wait another half hour for the next one", which automatically makes me stop work at fixed times. Sure, I could also just stop at the same ti…

Relying on something like train timings to enforce your work life balance isn’t a reliable strategy. What if the trains started running every 5 minutes? Or what if you moved a little closer and you could walk? If you don’t want to use willpower to stop working you could add some structured activity (after COVID) like a workout class after work. Or you could generally just make more deliberate plans for you after work…

If trains are infrequent enough (every 20-30 minutes or more) that it's worth planning around the schedule, it's generally unlikely that the frequency will be changed significantly in any 10-year period.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#178

Post by benhurmarcel »

Shacklz wrote: post #136
Philip-J-Fry wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The distinction between the beginning and end of my work day. Just log off at 5pm or 4pm or whenever you have done your contracted working hours. I rarely end up in a meeting which goes over my usual working hours. But otherwise I just log off. I don't understand how someone can work longer hours unwillingly when it's entirely in your control. I guess it depends on how your remote working is implemented. For me I re…

> I don't understand how someone can work longer hours unwillingly when it's entirely in your control. I have that situation, but without the 'unwilling' part. In the office, I have often the situation "Gosh, I'd love to finish this, but if I don't catch the next train I have to wait another half hour for the next one", which automatically makes me stop work at fixed times. Sure, I could also just stop at the same ti…

I also work longer hours on average when working from home, but I don't really mind it.

The main reason is that I save easily 90 minutes of commute per day, so it's not bothersome to be available some of that time extra. And the second reason is that I take personal breaks randomly during the day, I'm not always 100% focused on my work, so I don't feel like being available a bit later is a stretch. Flexibility goes both ways.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#179

Post by benhurmarcel »

iso947 wrote: post #61
bamboozled wrote: post #10

Thing I miss are: * Having someone clean my works space. My house gets dirtier now and I’m forever cleaning it, doing dishes. * The distinction between the beginning and end of my work day. * Having free space in my house. * Off the cuff dinner and drinks with colleagues. * No lag meetings and whiteboard sessions. * Having intervals apart from my family actually felt healthy, although we have adapted to being around…

I’m confused about your dishes claim. You mention you go home for lunch anyway so dishes don’t seem terrible, otherwise it’s a plate and a knife to pop in the dishwasher. When you were in an office and someone scheduled a 6am meeting what would you do? For me in the office I have a cup that I put in the dishwasher at the end of the day. At home I have a better cup that I put in the office at the end of the day. If yo…

I don't have a dishwasher. No space for it.

Re: I Miss Working from the Office

#180

Post by toyg »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #70

I'd like to think that after the n th discussion of this topic we could all generally agree: - Some people prefer working in an office environment. There are valid reasons for this, and it's totally fine. - Other people prefer working at home, and this is also completely fine and understandable. - People other than yourself who experience challenges with either one of these arrangements are not idiots and the things…

> inevitable that companies should stop adopting an inflexible "no remote work" policy

That's an optimistic take. I can totally see this or that manager having a horrible time at home, and as soon as he's back to the office, instituting a "next time we'll rather die here" policy where they stock up on masks and canned food and build a bunker-like environment that he'll never have to leave again.

In the end, execs already worked from wherever they liked. They set up certain policies because they thought they were more productive for the hoi polloi. I don't think the pandemic changed much in that regard, sadly.

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