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Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

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Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#441

Post by colinmhayes »

zepto wrote: post #377
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seriously, who cares if Epic earns 14 bzillionty dollars this month, or 20 bzillionty dollars? The narrative here is amazing, because you're not sympathizing with Epic because they're so big and have so much money... but they're still the little guy compared to Apple. The scale of Apple's monopoly profit makes Epic look like a corner pharmacy in Montana.

Epic is part of TenCent which is close to having a monopoly on games these days. But separately, the only reason to root for ‘the little guy’ is if the little guy is somehow hard done by. We dislike the fact that Apple makes some money by charging developers 30% for payment services, software delivery, and operating a storefront that users feel safe to buy from. We say 30% is too much to change for that, because the…

Why shouldn't you be able to sell toys to children? Fortnite clearly provides a lot of utility to a lot of people.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#442

Post by carlosdp »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #432
enos_feedler wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solidly? Not really. Still believe the Epic and Apple fight is all about Tim Sweeney being a greedy business man. Zero proof this 15% reduction has anything to do with pressure from that legal battle. Apple has made rev share changes in the past unprovoked (like 15% for sustained subs). How long do you think this change was in the works for? If this change was a response that’s great. But I would bet in that case App…

>is all about Tim Sweeney being a greedy business man Tim Sweeney provides one of the most advanced game engine technologies in the world completely for free for all revenue under 1 million. After 1 million you pay 5% on revenue over that, if your game makes $1,200,000 you pay Tim Sweeney $10,000. If you make 2 games and both games equally make 600K you pay Sweeney nothing. It's definitely a business but not sure "gr…

The Unreal development fund also regularly funds competitor open source game engines, like Godot Engine. Tim Sweeney is definitely not someone I'd describe as "greedy."

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#443

Post by CharlesW »

strawberrypuree wrote: post #347
pja wrote: post #173

I’m seeing a lot of positive comments on HN about this: to me it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. They hope to significantly reduce the pressure on politicians to take a close look at their App store practices by significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue. This has nothing to do with “doing the rig…

How can it be a “purely cynical PR piece” when there is an actual reduction in cost for developers? In other words, what should Apple have done here? What is the right cut, and how did you come to that figure?

> How can it be a “purely cynical PR piece” when there is an actual reduction in cost for developers?

This is a great question that assumes the responses here are mostly rational (not to minimize how anti-Apple folks feel, which is also legitimate). This is awesome news for small developers.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#444

Post by whimsicalism »

zaroth wrote: post #405
whimsicalism wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A store is allowed to charge what it wants for its products. A store is allowed to set the policies that it wants for the goods that it sells in its own stores. A store is allowed to block you from using any other store? These aren't natural continuations or logical extensions of meatspace, stop pretending they are.

This is literally not what’s happening. The iPhone is their product. If you don’t want to use their products and their store you do not have to. Buy a different device. There are plenty . Apple doesn’t get to tell Google, Samsung, Huawei, LG, OnePlus, Fairphone, etc. how to build their devices. The one device they do get to decide how it works is the iPhone. Because they created it, they own it, and they get to decid…

You're making normative claims as if they are "the way things are."

Maybe the above is how you think things ought to be (I disagree), but anti-trust jurisprudence does not agree with your pseudo-libertarian worldview.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#445

Post by whywhywhywhy »

forest_dweller wrote: post #364
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whether people on here like it or not is a standard agreement for these types of business relationship. Not seeking a cut of almost every transaction going through your OS just because you built the foundations and gatekeep the door was standard too.

You can make transactions through the web browser. So that isn't technically true.

I said almost, not every and we both know they try their best to make it obtuse as possible to pay in a browser because your app isn't even allowed to allude to it.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#446

Post by zepto »

psahgal wrote: post #370
wokwokwok wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Little guy"? Epic is fore casting earning something like 5 billion dollars this financial year. You'll have to try a bit harder to get a bit of sympathy for them than 'they're smaller than apple'. ... 5 billion dollars. ... And you want me to care that another company is shaking you down for a couple of million? Boo hoo. Poor epic. I wonder how they pay the bills. Oh, I know! They use some that 5 billion dollars the…

You are correct that Epic Games made 5 billion dollars in revenue in 2019, according to Venturebeat [1]. However, Apple Insider reports that Apple made 59.7 billion dollars in revenue in their third fiscal quarter (March, April, and May) of 2020 [2]. Epic's definitely not a little guy, but compared to Apple, it looks more like a respectable medium-sized company. I find Apple's revenue numbers and market value truly s…

Apple is the largest company in the world and sells the most successful product in human history.

Of course nobody ‘compares’.

But compared to almost any other iOS developer Epic is a giant.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#447

Post by whywhywhywhy »

TillE wrote: post #321
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minecraft didn’t distribute on Steam, they managed just fine. Neither does Fortnite come to think of it.

You're talking about a once-in-a-generation indie hit (which arguably started before Steam was omnipresent), and a game which was made and published by a big company. This is not the norm.

> (which arguably started before Steam was omnipresent)

This just isn't true, Steam had almost no competition in 2008. Microsoft didn't even have an app store till 2012, Epic certainly didn't, EA Origin is 2011.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#448

Post by cblconfederate »

pja wrote: post #173

I’m seeing a lot of positive comments on HN about this: to me it seems to be purely a cynical piece of PR on Apple’s part. They hope to significantly reduce the pressure on politicians to take a close look at their App store practices by significantly reducing the absolute number of developers suffering the full impact whilst taking the minimum possible hit to their revenue. This has nothing to do with “doing the rig…

The comments are part of the PR

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#449

Post by ethbr0 »

Spivak wrote: post #354
ge0rg wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm publishing the same (paid) app on Google Play and on Amazon's store, which is AFAICT the most widely used alternative (outside of markets where Google is not active). My Amazon income is less than 2% of the Google income.

Should this make a difference? Just because users don't actually use alternative app stores doesn't mean the alternatives don't exist. It's not like Bed Bath & Beyond gets to complain that they don't get as many customers as Target. It has to be okay for a company to find themselves with naturally large marketshare simply because they do good business. If Google is doing something unkosher to get/keep their marketsha…

Absolutely. Anti-competitive laws aren't intended to prevent current market share, but rather level competition for future market share.

If Google has 99% current market share for mobile OS, props to them. They deserve it for working like heck, delivering something amazing, and finding a model that allows them to distribute for free.

If Google has 99% market share, and ensures it keeps 99% market share in the future by setting up licensing deals to tie Google Apps + App Store together... that deserves a lot more scrutiny.

Re: Apple Announces App Store Small Business Program

#450

Post by whimsicalism »

Spivak wrote: post #361
benhurmarcel wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should that work in that way on desktop also? With Microsoft/Apple being free to restrict apps to their store only, and taking a cut of every transaction made outside the browser? If not, what's the difference with phones/tablets?

I think they should be allowed to do it. If we let them get away with it because the alternatives are worse then that's our own fault. Hard to fault a business for realizing that they have a stupid amount of leverage because people have made themselves dependent on you and charging more.

> Hard to fault a business

What? If a business is causing a large negative externality, that's a bad thing.

Just because you can't "fault" people for pursuing profit doesn't mean they should be allowed to do it any way possible?

I just really don't understand this worldview.

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