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Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

reuters.com

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Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#271

Post by DoingIsLearning »

feralimal wrote: post #267
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems self-evident that any extra would be mopped up by trees, bushes etc in the wild. This is factually incorrect. Please stop spreading lies. [0] You are absolutely failing to realise the rate at which we are pumping CO2, NO2 and SO2 and other gases into the atmosphere. > Did you know that some farms, pump carbon dioxide into their greenhouses to improve their crop. Did you know that humans are going to get co…

So much trust in the stories you are provided. Even though it doesn't tally up with what you see. I see a wonderful world. You see a world that you yourself are killing. But even accepting the stories, science etc we are given, the top 100 corporations are responsible on their own for 70% of the emissions. Why don't we make this issue completely disappear in the easiest way possible, by banning those corporations onl…

> But even accepting the stories, science etc we are given, the top 100 corporations are responsible on their own for 70% of the emissions. Why don't we make this issue completely disappear in the easiest way possible, by banning those corporations only from any polluting? Job done.

Well on that we definitely have common ground, all you need now is a few spare million to form a political lobbying group. Bare in mind that much of that pollution is to make products/utilities that are then used by consumer. So it is still consumer driven pollution. But I absolutely agree on the principle that Government and Industry should be leading the Carbon emmisions reduction.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#272

Post by adrianN »

barnacled wrote: post #115
adrianN wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that hard to build curbside chargers. You don't need high current chargers when most parking spots have a charger. A kilowatt or two will be plenty. Cars spend 23h a day parked. EVs use 15-25kWh/100km. Most people drive less than 50km a day. Sprinkle some fast charging along highways for longer road trips and charging is no longer an issue.

This is hilariously impractical. Have you seen curbside chargers? There's some up the road from me and by no means does it look simple to install them, not to mention that you'd have to do it along _every_ single residential street _everywhere_ and we don't have the electrical capacity to do it anyway! If it really is so simple, why when I live in London do I not see entire streets filled with chargers? Surely you'd…

You don't see streets filled with chargers because almost nobody has an EV yet. Just like you didn't see many gas stations providing unleaded fuel two years before catalytic converters became mandatory.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#273

Post by markburns »

onion2k wrote: post #70
Jetrel wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, with new teslas, their range is similar enough to gas cars that you only need to charge them about once a week, if that. And they charge fast enough that it's not terribly dissimilar from hitting the gas station, which currently is perhaps a 10 minute affair for gas. Bumping that to ~20min isn't a dealbreaker. It's feasible, if a little bit annoying, to have a refueling story for them that's similar to that o…

Bumping that to ~20min isn't a dealbreaker. Imagine you turn up to a charging station behind 4 other cars, and there's 2 charging points. Your 20 minute wait is now an hour. If each car took 10 minutes then you'd only be waiting 20 minutes. Increasing the average waiting time in a queue has a terrible impact on throughput.

I’d imagine that the number of charging points would increase somewhat to accommodate that. Presumably the number of pumps at a station is a function of required throughput.

I also think there will be a lot more roadside individual charging stations rather than specialised large locations that are convenient because of the centralised storage of a physical liquid.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#274

Post by adrianN »

terryf wrote: post #97
adrianN wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that hard to build curbside chargers. You don't need high current chargers when most parking spots have a charger. A kilowatt or two will be plenty. Cars spend 23h a day parked. EVs use 15-25kWh/100km. Most people drive less than 50km a day. Sprinkle some fast charging along highways for longer road trips and charging is no longer an issue.

As someone that works on software that includes functions to try to figure out where you can place electric car chargers - it absolutely is very hard. The grid just isn't ready for it. It can be done, but will require massive investment in infrastructure. There are also problems such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_curve and other things that can be mitigated with ADR to an extent, but it's absolutely not easy

It is a lot easier than the alternatives: unmitigated climate change or building the infrastructure for e-fuels.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#275

Post by feralimal »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #269
feralimal wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its far, far bigger than that. And you do realise that the BBC was created to be a propaganda delivery vehicle? That you couldn't get a job there unless you had been screened by MI5? That they gave out free TVs to ensure good take up of their propaganda?

Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_cont... You have 119 sources to choose from at the bottom of the page, but perhaps anything that doesn't align with your dogmas is a propaganda piece. Social media and Murdoch's media conglomerates were probably the biggest and most succesful propaganda machines of modern society. You might want to check what are the information sources you do trust. I am…

I've expressed my position. That this is a captured system, owned by large corporations. That education, science, government, media - all of it is captured and bent towards the will of those few who own the large corporations. If you can't see how the world is being co-ordinated now, I don't think you ever will.

If you are a top elite, and own almost everything, even banks, even the Federal Reserve (and it is privately owned btw), so you can print your own money, you have a totally different set of questions. You may well find yourself prepared to ditch an entire industry (oil) for the sake of the greater good. Its really not about the oil industry.

We are globally being transitioned away from cars, etc. We will not own cars in the future. We will have our freedom of movement severely constrained, on account of our 'citizen score' (see present day China). We will not be able to use electricity or water, once our allocated credits are used up. This sounds dystopian, right?

But you will be cheering this on, because you believe what you are told.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#276

Post by adrianN »

johnday wrote: post #266
CalRobert wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps we should stop letting individuals appropriate public space for storage of their private property, and charge market rate for the land used by parking, thereby encouraging people who are not car dependent to buy houses such as yours instead of demanding a public handout for vehicle storage? (The High Cost Of Free Parking explores this issue in depth)

What about houses which are not within walking distance of amenities, and do not have room for off-street parking? That's a large proportion of suburban (or even urban) housing in the UK.

Time to build some amenities and public transport. Suburban dead zones where you can't do anything without a car are terrible anyway. What about old people who can't drive anymore but can't afford to move? Or children?

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#277

Post by Hamuko »

CalRobert wrote: post #104
physicsguy wrote: post #31

Many, many houses do not have anything other than on-street parking here. Since 2012 I've lived in 5 houses, and three of them had no driveway. I'm currently buying a house which has no drive way, with no way of fitting one. Apparently 1/3 houses have only on street parking. Unless they also provide huge, huge grants to rapidly implement dense onstreet charging, and fast, this is a pipedream and will end up getting p…

Perhaps we should stop letting individuals appropriate public space for storage of their private property, and charge market rate for the land used by parking, thereby encouraging people who are not car dependent to buy houses such as yours instead of demanding a public handout for vehicle storage? (The High Cost Of Free Parking explores this issue in depth)

>Perhaps we should stop letting individuals appropriate public space for storage of their private property

Are you arguing for getting rid of apartments?

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#278

Post by feralimal »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #271
feralimal wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much trust in the stories you are provided. Even though it doesn't tally up with what you see. I see a wonderful world. You see a world that you yourself are killing. But even accepting the stories, science etc we are given, the top 100 corporations are responsible on their own for 70% of the emissions. Why don't we make this issue completely disappear in the easiest way possible, by banning those corporations onl…

> But even accepting the stories, science etc we are given, the top 100 corporations are responsible on their own for 70% of the emissions. Why don't we make this issue completely disappear in the easiest way possible, by banning those corporations only from any polluting? Job done. Well on that we definitely have common ground, all you need now is a few spare million to form a political lobbying group. Bare in mind…

Its so obvious, isn't it? Why hasn't anyone done it? Because that does not suit the agenda.

Because government does not change anything, its just there to pacify the masses. Name one thing that government has done for you, when you voted?

Lobbying is not the answer. You are dealing with a system that has been captured from top to bottom.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#279

Post by onion2k »

markburns wrote: post #273
onion2k wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bumping that to ~20min isn't a dealbreaker. Imagine you turn up to a charging station behind 4 other cars, and there's 2 charging points. Your 20 minute wait is now an hour. If each car took 10 minutes then you'd only be waiting 20 minutes. Increasing the average waiting time in a queue has a terrible impact on throughput.

I’d imagine that the number of charging points would increase somewhat to accommodate that. Presumably the number of pumps at a station is a function of required throughput. I also think there will be a lot more roadside individual charging stations rather than specialised large locations that are convenient because of the centralised storage of a physical liquid.

I’d imagine that the number of charging points would increase somewhat to accommodate that.

Sure, but that's limited by land in cities and electrical infrastructure in more rural areas. Whether there'll ever be enough charging points to make charging your car not be a hassle is something only time will tell.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#280

Post by alxtye »

mavhc wrote: post #108
brtkdotse wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You cannot have sudden cliff-edges in policies Brexit has entered the chat

Brexit is a direct result of global warming. Wars caused by drought, cause migration, cause racism.

Interesting theory. Which wars caused by drought?
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