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Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

reuters.com

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Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#51

Post by baq »

physicsguy wrote: post #31

Many, many houses do not have anything other than on-street parking here. Since 2012 I've lived in 5 houses, and three of them had no driveway. I'm currently buying a house which has no drive way, with no way of fitting one. Apparently 1/3 houses have only on street parking. Unless they also provide huge, huge grants to rapidly implement dense onstreet charging, and fast, this is a pipedream and will end up getting p…

most streets have electric lights. people have been trying to develop technology to allow to charge off that existing infrastructure.

https://www.fleeteurope.com/en/new-energies/europe/analysis/... is one example - very relevant, as it's from London.

but this isn't to say i disagree; quite the contrary, i agree completely that it's a huge problem for EVs in dense urban areas, perhaps the biggest.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#52

Post by cmdkeen »

ChrisRR wrote: post #42
physicsguy wrote: post #31

Many, many houses do not have anything other than on-street parking here. Since 2012 I've lived in 5 houses, and three of them had no driveway. I'm currently buying a house which has no drive way, with no way of fitting one. Apparently 1/3 houses have only on street parking. Unless they also provide huge, huge grants to rapidly implement dense onstreet charging, and fast, this is a pipedream and will end up getting p…

I agree. My previous flat had parking about 50 metres away. The previous, people just parked anywhere on the road. I bet they won't be installing charging points at every random location on a road that anyone could possible park on

I live in Edinburgh, one of the more car-unfriendly cities in the UK and recently bought a Model 3. I park on the street, the city has gone nowhere with its plans to provide on street chargers. Yet it isn't a problem, despite a relative lack of public chargers compared to elsewhere in the country it is still perfectly feasible. I've tweaked my habits to go to the supermarket that has a charger in the car park, when planning what to do at the weekend I check nearby charging locations.

Business locations can acquire visitors by offering them, and there's all sorts of upsell benefits. A garden centre that has one might get me to stay and visit their cafe if I know I'm going to be there for an hour for instance.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#53

Post by adrianN »

physicsguy wrote: post #31

Many, many houses do not have anything other than on-street parking here. Since 2012 I've lived in 5 houses, and three of them had no driveway. I'm currently buying a house which has no drive way, with no way of fitting one. Apparently 1/3 houses have only on street parking. Unless they also provide huge, huge grants to rapidly implement dense onstreet charging, and fast, this is a pipedream and will end up getting p…

It's not that hard to build curbside chargers. You don't need high current chargers when most parking spots have a charger. A kilowatt or two will be plenty. Cars spend 23h a day parked. EVs use 15-25kWh/100km. Most people drive less than 50km a day. Sprinkle some fast charging along highways for longer road trips and charging is no longer an issue.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#54

Post by djmobley »

physicsguy wrote: post #31

Many, many houses do not have anything other than on-street parking here. Since 2012 I've lived in 5 houses, and three of them had no driveway. I'm currently buying a house which has no drive way, with no way of fitting one. Apparently 1/3 houses have only on street parking. Unless they also provide huge, huge grants to rapidly implement dense onstreet charging, and fast, this is a pipedream and will end up getting p…

This is where autonomous vehicles come in.

Why pay to own and store your own vehicle, which you might use 5% of the time, when you could hail an autonomous vehicle on demand, for less than the cost of current ride-hailing services?

Owning your own vehicle will become an unnecessary luxury, reserved for the kind of people who have the space to store them.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#55

Post by DoingIsLearning »

mister_hn wrote: post #32

I hope that with these bans, actually the government will take action on the high prices of electric vehicles and on the charging infrastructure. A middle-size car can't cost € 40.000 (without batteries!), a lot of people can't afford them.

> the government will take action on the high prices of electric vehicles and on the charging infrastructure

Why spend money on access to more vehicles instead of improving public transport.

If we are serious about the environment and the whole 3x R's, we should treat vehicles as the luxury that they are.

If you have to commute between your remote farm and your nearest city sure maybe there should be a government incentive. But if you are within an urban setting incentivizing more vehicles (eletric or otherwise) is not a good government investment in my view.

I think a big issue with people that say that public transit doesn't work for their particular use-case, or their logistics, or their 5 kids, is because they never experienced high quality, high frequency, reliable public transit.

This is arguably a near impossible task in Automotive-centric North and South America but it is absolutely feasible in Europe, Asia, and Africa.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#56

Post by XorNot »

adrianN wrote: post #33
PopeDotNinja wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure about the economics of it, but I’d rather drive a car powered by synthetic gasoline made from pulling carbon dioxide out of the air. No new CO2 combined with no restrictions on range & quick refueling times sounds like a win. I still don’t know where people will plug in all of these electric cars.

The economics are such that it probably won't work out. EVs are >85% efficient from wind turbine to movement. Making synthetic fuel is at best 40% efficient from electricity->fuel and the ICE only translates that to movement. We probably don't have enough room for turbines and solar panels to produce the necessary power.

Ehh...we get a stupid huge amount of sunlight from the sun daily, and the benefit of synthetic fuel is that it's a lot easier to store long term then electrical energy in batteries.

I think the main issue is that it's a lot easier to convert diesel's to run on alternative fuel oils then it is to get gasoline vehicles to do the same.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#57

Post by silveroriole »

physicsguy wrote: post #31

Many, many houses do not have anything other than on-street parking here. Since 2012 I've lived in 5 houses, and three of them had no driveway. I'm currently buying a house which has no drive way, with no way of fitting one. Apparently 1/3 houses have only on street parking. Unless they also provide huge, huge grants to rapidly implement dense onstreet charging, and fast, this is a pipedream and will end up getting p…

And places that do have driveways have often created them by paving over an existing garden, which is two steps back for the environment. In my lifetime I’ve seen proper front gardens all but disappear in my area.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#58

Post by brtkdotse »

djmobley wrote: post #43
LatteLazy wrote: post #30

This perfectly epitomises the uk (and the rest of the worlds) attitude to global warming: * it's a non binding commitment to do something but not for at least a decade * it's not enough even if it does happen * it will be too late by then (it probably already is for anything but drastic action) * it's totally at the whim of future governments who will be no more willing to spend the money/time/popularity than the cur…

I think you’ve completely missed the point of what is a very reasonable and forward-thinking signalling exercise. You cannot have sudden cliff-edges in policies (like banning the sale of new ICE vehicles) that would put thousands, if not millions of people out of jobs. You need to send signals like this to the market well in advance so they can invest and plan ahead.

> You cannot have sudden cliff-edges in policies

Brexit has entered the chat

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#59

Post by [deleted] »

adrianN wrote: post #53
physicsguy wrote: post #31

Many, many houses do not have anything other than on-street parking here. Since 2012 I've lived in 5 houses, and three of them had no driveway. I'm currently buying a house which has no drive way, with no way of fitting one. Apparently 1/3 houses have only on street parking. Unless they also provide huge, huge grants to rapidly implement dense onstreet charging, and fast, this is a pipedream and will end up getting p…

It's not that hard to build curbside chargers. You don't need high current chargers when most parking spots have a charger. A kilowatt or two will be plenty. Cars spend 23h a day parked. EVs use 15-25kWh/100km. Most people drive less than 50km a day. Sprinkle some fast charging along highways for longer road trips and charging is no longer an issue.

[deleted]

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#60

Post by Jetrel »

physicsguy wrote: post #31

Many, many houses do not have anything other than on-street parking here. Since 2012 I've lived in 5 houses, and three of them had no driveway. I'm currently buying a house which has no drive way, with no way of fitting one. Apparently 1/3 houses have only on street parking. Unless they also provide huge, huge grants to rapidly implement dense onstreet charging, and fast, this is a pipedream and will end up getting p…

I mean, with new teslas, their range is similar enough to gas cars that you only need to charge them about once a week, if that. And they charge fast enough that it's not terribly dissimilar from hitting the gas station, which currently is perhaps a 10 minute affair for gas. Bumping that to ~20min isn't a dealbreaker. It's feasible, if a little bit annoying, to have a refueling story for them that's similar to that of gas cars.

I think this idea of electrics desperately needing to charge every time they're parked - it's not wrong, but it's getting pretty close to being an anachronism, and I expect it actually will be on in 5ish years, certainly 10.

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