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Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

reuters.com

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Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#221

Post by baq »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #206
CaptArmchair wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you can't do them storming straight out of the gates. It just doesn't work like that. But sure, you can do them perfectly. How? - You provide incentives for attractive alternatives. - You invest in those alternatives and you invest in contextual drivers that make the transition more appealing. For instance, you provide an integrated plans for urban planning that cover different concerns. - You emphasize the…

People used to eat little meat, not because of a "traditional" or "localized" way of living but because they were too poor to afford it. As soon as they got richer they could do what they dreamed of. It's like cars, really. People used to walk . Not because it was nice and healthy but because they had no choice. Then bikes and public transport werean improvement, but really people do prefer the comfort and freedom of…

exactly. our western standard of living is simply too cheap. too many costs are externalized and, even worse, people like to pretend these costs don't even exist.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#222

Post by flurdy »

LatteLazy wrote: post #30

This perfectly epitomises the uk (and the rest of the worlds) attitude to global warming: * it's a non binding commitment to do something but not for at least a decade * it's not enough even if it does happen * it will be too late by then (it probably already is for anything but drastic action) * it's totally at the whim of future governments who will be no more willing to spend the money/time/popularity than the cur…

> This is the same as my committing to start my diet, by giving up one specific thing, but not for a decade, after my doctor told me I gave 6m to lose weight or die. And to celebrate I'll eat two pizzas and 4 litres of soda, for breakfast.

Great analogy. But to be honest politicians don't make drastic changes as they fear they will loose the next election.

But I do believe they under estimate people's interest in dealing with climate change.

Then again Brexit happened and people vote for Boris and Trump so what do I really know what the electorate wants.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#223

Post by stevenhuang »

mavhc wrote: post #128
barnacled wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment perfectly epitomises the 'climate crisis' extinction rebellion Greta Thunberg school of response to climate issues. Firstly - any response to climate change that does not include China and really India and other emerging economies too is more or less useless. Why should we deny such countries the benefits of full industrialisation? Secondly - while in some respects you are correct, looking at CO2 numbers…

How is improving our energy supply so it's cheaper and cleaner going to harm the economy? Pretty sure there's a lot of jobs creating new power sources, and once everyone has cheap power they'll have more money left for the economy. The cost to fix global warming only gets greater each year. China buys more electric cars than all other countries.

> drastic action which tanks its economy

None of what you proposed can be reasonably considered drastic action, so you're not really in disagreement with OP there.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#224

Post by baq »

mavhc wrote: post #108
brtkdotse wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You cannot have sudden cliff-edges in policies Brexit has entered the chat

Brexit is a direct result of global warming. Wars caused by drought, cause migration, cause racism.

British politicians blaming EU for basically everything bad didn't help, though.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#225

Post by [deleted] »

feralimal wrote: post #203
jonp888 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to expect that rising Carbon Dioxide means people will suffocate, and if they haven't, then "Gotcha! It's all made up", but it doesn't work like that. You will never, ever see the water level rise in a way that is directly visible. The effect is more frequent flooding. I personally, have noticed a change in the climate. When I was a child, the river used to freeze in the winter and there would be metres of s…

No I don't think it means people will suffocate. I'm saying that carbon dioxide should help trees grow. That we have a natural buffer against too much. Did you know that some farms, pump carbon dioxide into their greenhouses to improve their crop. It seems self-evident that any extra would be mopped up by trees, bushes etc in the wild. I hear what you are saying about snow and your experience. But you should also ask…

[deleted]

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#226

Post by black_puppydog »

baq wrote: post #217
rusk wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> political processes have not allowed those signals to reach "the economy" This right here is the achilles heal of free market theory.

the market can and will correct itself. there are two problems however: - actually getting rules implemented and enforced (political suicide by regulators - had an example of that in my own country just a couple months ago, made a mess in the government, the new rules didn't pass in parliament, governing party lost 10 pp in polls anyway) - very irregular period of convergence from old rules to new (societal turmoil g…

you forgot problem number three:

- the market as such will correct itself but is entirely unconcerned with the welfare of human beings in the meantime, and will continue to be unconcerned with it afterwards.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#227

Post by DarkmSparks »

LatteLazy wrote: post #30

This perfectly epitomises the uk (and the rest of the worlds) attitude to global warming: * it's a non binding commitment to do something but not for at least a decade * it's not enough even if it does happen * it will be too late by then (it probably already is for anything but drastic action) * it's totally at the whim of future governments who will be no more willing to spend the money/time/popularity than the cur…

Global warming here is just for cover up. IMHO The real reason they dont want petrol cars in the UK is because the North Sea Oil is just about all gone.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#228

Post by xenocratus »

rienbdj wrote: post #178
eertami wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people get a measly 2 days of leisure time per week and you want to ban them from being able to use cars/leave the city on their 2 free days? Good luck I guess?

Why should leisure time require a car?

Because most people don't live in city centres where the "fun" actually is, so they have to get there somehow, sometimes from 10-20 miles away. They could all use public transit (in places where it's available), but that would increase the burden on that kind of transit. Especially for big cities, that was already quite busy - well, until the pandemic.

What I've seen happening here in the UK is that a lot of people leave their cars in a park & ride or close to a train station then shuttle in, which I guess is a step forward, but a lot are still driving all the way.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#229

Post by ArnoVW »

rowanG077 wrote: post #67
djmobley wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’ve completely missed the point of what is a very reasonable and forward-thinking signalling exercise. You cannot have sudden cliff-edges in policies (like banning the sale of new ICE vehicles) that would put thousands, if not millions of people out of jobs. You need to send signals like this to the market well in advance so they can invest and plan ahead.

Millions of people die or they are out of Jobs? What a hard choice to make. The consideration shouldn't be "but what about the economy?". It should be what if we don't do it.

Problem is, it's not the same people doing the dieing. And the dieing doesn't happen right now.

Inverse situation for covid. Suddenly there is a lot of money we can borrow from our children, because 'a problem right not' VS 'à problem in 10 years'

Not sure how we can fix this 'bug' in our governance model..

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#230

Post by ourlordcaffeine »

mcjiggerlog wrote: post #197
cmdkeen wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The supermarket ones are free - though only 7kW, as they're for customer use. I park up and go for a walk round the local park then do my shopping. For the rest I use Charge Place Scotland - it's a scheme where you pay £20 a year and get free unlimited charging at various locations around Scotland, they do have some separate locations you have to pay, usually for faster charging. Certainly amongst my friends with ele…

Wow ok, surprised that they are unmetered! Surely that can't scale? What is an estimate £ cost in electricity for filling an average battery?

Assuming ~75KWh batteries, £7.50 if the supermarket pays 10p per KWh.
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