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Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

reuters.com

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Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#161

Post by singemonkey »

arnoooooo wrote: post #95
echelon wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Start by implementing a odd/even rule for license plates in big cities, even full bans on weekends. > - Tax and/or de-subsidize the meat industry. And just like that, you've been voted straight out of office. Better luck next life connecting to the electorate. You can't do those things. Humanity is a distributed consensus problem. Climate change presents an interesting change in the fitness landscape topology ahe…

What are leaders for if they can't lead ? Should their job not be to convince people of what needs to be done ? They do a very good job by the way when it comes to pushing for liberalism.

When did Trump and Johnson push for liberalism?

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#162

Post by matthewmacleod »

barnacled wrote: post #83
LatteLazy wrote: post #30

This perfectly epitomises the uk (and the rest of the worlds) attitude to global warming: * it's a non binding commitment to do something but not for at least a decade * it's not enough even if it does happen * it will be too late by then (it probably already is for anything but drastic action) * it's totally at the whim of future governments who will be no more willing to spend the money/time/popularity than the cur…

This comment perfectly epitomises the 'climate crisis' extinction rebellion Greta Thunberg school of response to climate issues. Firstly - any response to climate change that does not include China and really India and other emerging economies too is more or less useless. Why should we deny such countries the benefits of full industrialisation? Secondly - while in some respects you are correct, looking at CO2 numbers…

And of course this comment completely epitomises the hand-wringing, pearl-clutching “won’t somebody please think of the economy!!” liberal centrism that results in absolutely fuck-all happening.

A non-binding commitment that tells industry “in ten years you folks will need to be in a position to switch to a technology which is already reasonably viable so better get scaling” is a pretty milquetoast effort, and describing it as “climate hysterics” is obvious nonsense. This general plan of banning new sales by 2030 seems to be emerging as a bit of a consensus in different countries, and it looks like a pretty necessary step.

You should be much more worried about this problem than you are, and this worry should translate into pressure on all governments globally to build credible plans for decarbonisation. Those plans should include the use of global trade measures to influence countries who aren’t meeting decarbonisation targets. Continuing to put off essential measures achieves little other than making them vastly more economically damaging when they are implemented later.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#163

Post by cabalamat »

anovikov wrote: post #38
LatteLazy wrote: post #30

This perfectly epitomises the uk (and the rest of the worlds) attitude to global warming: * it's a non binding commitment to do something but not for at least a decade * it's not enough even if it does happen * it will be too late by then (it probably already is for anything but drastic action) * it's totally at the whim of future governments who will be no more willing to spend the money/time/popularity than the cur…

But on the other hand, this IS indeed a super drastic action and we can't expect any nation on Earth apart from possibly, a few city-states like Singapore, to do as much in the same time frame. Petrol cars will be mainstay of transportation for about 40-50 years and will dominate new car sales for at least 20-30 years depending on the country. Anything but classic petrol and diesel cars will still hold tiny market sh…

> Petrol cars will be mainstay of transportation for about 40-50 years and will dominate new car sales for at least 20-30 years depending on the country.

I disagree. i think the timescale for the switchover to electric vehicles (and self-driving vehicles) will be shorter than that.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#164

Post by notauser »

ehnto wrote: post #139
adrianN wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that hard to build curbside chargers. You don't need high current chargers when most parking spots have a charger. A kilowatt or two will be plenty. Cars spend 23h a day parked. EVs use 15-25kWh/100km. Most people drive less than 50km a day. Sprinkle some fast charging along highways for longer road trips and charging is no longer an issue.

You might be ignoring some big issues, such as grid availability on highways, and the capacity of the grid in those areas.

Not having a private drive is mostly an issue in London, where curbside chargers are already being built all over the city.

Here's an example of the light pole chargers that are being installed in residential areas in London:

https://www.ubitricity.co.uk/b2b-local-authorities/

They deliver 5.5 kW, which is fine for overnight charging.

They are also installing a few 43kw charging points for faster top-ups.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#165

Post by barnacled »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #142
barnacled wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment perfectly epitomises the 'climate crisis' extinction rebellion Greta Thunberg school of response to climate issues. Firstly - any response to climate change that does not include China and really India and other emerging economies too is more or less useless. Why should we deny such countries the benefits of full industrialisation? Secondly - while in some respects you are correct, looking at CO2 numbers…

>> Firstly - any response to climate change that does not include China and really India Are these not mostly proxy emissions for western countries? E.g. is it the case that people in these countries are emitting pollution due to their lifestyles, or is the pollution mostly from energy, transport and manufacturing in the pursuit of selling products to western countries? >> During the covid19 situation we've seen the…

>Are these not mostly proxy emissions for western countries? E.g. is it the case that people in these countries are emitting pollution due to their lifestyles, or is the pollution mostly from energy, transport and manufacturing in the pursuit of selling products to western countries?

Good point but I think much of it could also be attributed to countries going through their own industrialisation processes and generating wealth (however that end product gets used). Are we to condemn them all to poverty? Much of China is still rather impoverished.

Also - are you suggesting we should shut down our economies in order that we don't produce anything in China for example? If not then _how_ they produce the power/do industry is in their hands not ours and it's an issue to address.

The big issue in China is the CCP have no reason to care or abide by any global rules on this (or follow the example of any goody 2-shoes western country). They have endless coal plants with very little CO2 mitigation and the corrupt/totalitarian nature of their govt makes it very difficult to have them improve on this.

>Is there any evidence of deaths attributable to shut downs so far? There’s over a million deaths worldwide due to covid, how many attributable to non-covid causes? E.g. suicide etc. There's a strong correlation between economic strife and deaths. I'm not going to get into the missed medical appointments etc. as that is not relevant here but that's a covid factor too.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#166

Post by matsemann »

numpad0 wrote: post #85
trollied wrote: post #2

Discussion from 3 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25101766

Two top comments there are made by one same account and the topmost is about “anti-EV sentiment [being] so strongly held”. Understandable a dupe had to be made, can’t discuss where these robots prevail.

- Am I so out of touch? No, it must be everyone else who are wrong!

Or in your case, just accusing them of being bots..

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#167

Post by cabalamat »

anovikov wrote: post #82
Ma8ee wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are way off. It took about 15 years to go from cities dominated by horse carriages to them being dominated by cars. It took longer in agriculture and rural areas. But the shift to electrical vehicles is trivial in comparison. Technically and economically we could easily prohibit new fossil fuelled cars by 2025. Sun and wind power is already much cheaper to install than coal powered plants, and once sun and wind p…

In the field of electricity generation, sure. Technology is there, apart from storage technology. But, given still higher costs and range anxiety, it will be very difficult to convince most consumers to buy electric cars. It will be most probably only generational shift: people born before ~1990 will still buy petrol cars till they die out, and younger generations will progressively shift, having different habits. It…

> But, given still higher costs and range anxiety, it will be very difficult to convince most consumers to buy electric cars.

Range anxiety is only an issue for long journeys.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#168

Post by Sholmesy »

feralimal wrote: post #151
feralimal wrote: post #119

Where is the climate emergency? Can someone show me something I can see? Sea levels haven't risen. There are more small birds around where I live than when I was younger. Things seem to be doing ok. I am a skeptic and I'm very far from trusting experts. I don't want to be in a state of belief, I want to know. But I am put in a position that I must take it on trust that it is real. Is carbon dioxide bad? Surely, it wo…

Thanks for those posting data from NASA and NOAA. I know you will think that I'm being outrageous not to trust the data from those organisations, but I don't. I see all - ALL - the organisations as acting in interests that are not mine. I do not want to get into an anarchy conversation, but I think it is self-evident that governmental structures are about control. What is requested in posting this 'scientific' data,…

It's not a religious position.

It's a chain of trust, as an individual you can decide where that trust begins and ends for you, but it's impossible for you to be at the forefront measuring every possible variable, and being an expert in every field, conducting analysis of the data.

At some point you need to defer to people who know (or at least, you believe they know) more than you.

It's like with our computers spying on us. Yes you can inspect the code, yes you can check the signatures of the code running on your machine match the code as listed, but then what of the OS, what of the drivers, what of the micro-code, firmware, hardware, etc etc.

It's an impossible position to reason you out of, because you are living in a completely zero trust world.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#169

Post by input_sh »

smilekzs wrote: post #126
echelon wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Start by implementing a odd/even rule for license plates in big cities, even full bans on weekends. > - Tax and/or de-subsidize the meat industry. And just like that, you've been voted straight out of office. Better luck next life connecting to the electorate. You can't do those things. Humanity is a distributed consensus problem. Climate change presents an interesting change in the fitness landscape topology ahe…

> odd/even rule for license plates Friendly reminder that Beijing has been implementing exactly that, then later a variant of that, since 2008. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_space_rationing_in_Beijin...

Friendly reminder that measures like this unevenly affect people in different social classes, because those who are well-off can just buy two cars and be completely unaffected.

Re: Britain to ban new petrol cars and vans by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

#170

Post by Ekaros »

barnacled wrote: post #92
throwaway69123 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t the power come from the street? Seems like adding metered street parking wouldn’t be a big deal and a great source of revenue for gov to replace fuel tax that is lost

There is a limited amount of current available from the electrical substations that serve any given area (and thus any given street), you can't just magic up enough current to be able to charge vastly more electric cars, it requires massive infrastructural change. All the existing street chargers I've seen (there's a couple up the road from me) are like 1 or 2 here + there. Probably no more than 1 per thousand parkin…

This reminds me of the place near me. Essentially office building near at least two if not three factories. Had 2 charging stations expanded to 8 now there is new substation... So even in location where you would expect there to be capacity it was still required to install more...
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