Why Isn't Susan Wojcicki Getting Grilled by Congress? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Isn't Susan Wojcicki Getting Grilled by Congress?

#21

Post by rualca » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 7:42 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #14

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #3

> ”The platform is playing host to, and is an important vector for, spreading false claims of election victory and attempts to delegitimize Biden’s win.” This whole debate seems extremely disingenuous to me. What does it matter if people say Biden didn’t win? It changes nothing. People say all kinds of nonsense, a lot of it way more harmful than arguing over who won an election. I can’t believe the left are advocatin…

>a lot of it way more harmful than arguing over who won an election. there's not much that is more harmful than questioning the legitimate outcome of a democratic election. It can, and is very likely to be a precursor for violence and destabilisation of fundamental institutions. This is not a matter of left and right, it's a matter of truthfulness and peaceful transition of power, which is the most fundamental mechan…

> This is not a matter of left and right, it's a matter of truthfulness and peaceful transition of power, which is the most fundamental mechanism in any functioning state.

Truth be told, in the current US panorama it also doesn't seem to be a "left vs right" issue. Even in the Republican party there are elements who distanced themselves away from this dumpster fire.

Libertarians, who in the US political landscape pretty much fall on the right side of the spectrum, were never in the bandwagon to begin with. They might not be numerous, but they are large enough to have been attacked for not supporting the losing candidate, thus for some reason being held responsible for his loss.

What the world is witnessing is a political movement headed by a demagogue that's fuelled by populist propaganda, and just because he used right-wing tropes to snare up a following that doesn't mean he represents "the right".

Re: Why Isn't Susan Wojcicki Getting Grilled by Congress?

#22

Post by 0xy » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 7:51 AM UTC

solipsism wrote: post #4

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #3

> ”The platform is playing host to, and is an important vector for, spreading false claims of election victory and attempts to delegitimize Biden’s win.” This whole debate seems extremely disingenuous to me. What does it matter if people say Biden didn’t win? It changes nothing. People say all kinds of nonsense, a lot of it way more harmful than arguing over who won an election. I can’t believe the left are advocatin…

Disinformation, especially political disinformation, has been shown to be extremely harmful and an existential threat to democracy. Have you been under a rock the past 4+ years?

Most disinformation comes from mainstream media, especially the harmful stuff.

For example, Washington Post falsely claimed Russia hacked into critical US energy infrastructure. The story was fabricated.

The New York Times falsely claimed, repeatedly, that there were WMDs in Iraq. The story was fabricated, thousands died.

Hence why not a single media organisation in the US is trusted by more than 50% of Americans, including "neutral" (self proclaimed but false) organisations like the Associated Press.

Re: Why Isn't Susan Wojcicki Getting Grilled by Congress?

#23

Post by rualca » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 7:56 AM UTC

crowf wrote: post #19

rualca wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Source that the past US election was free and democratic? I'm not sure you're being serious. In case you are, can you provide me with any example which supports the assertion that US voters haven't freely expressed their will in their vote, and that the winners of these elections don't reflect the will of the american people? > I, and most Americans, believe that Biden appears to win is because he won the most dele…

> I'm not sure you're being serious. Has you read the following line you would see that I was not. However, I can point a link to Montgomery county election workers filling in the circles on absentee ballots [0]. I unfortunately can't prove it to you, but I saw a confirmation that my friends grandmother's absentee ballot arrived. The only problem is that see has passed away a few years ago. > But that's not what's ha…

> However, I can point a link to Montgomery county election workers filling in the circles on absentee ballots [0].

Is that your smoking gun?

I mean, you're pointing to an article about an incident involving one person working on a single county election suspected of being involved in a single incident where he is suspected of violating a single vote?

If I'm not mistaken, in Montgomery county, Maryland, the election results show a difference in votes for both candidates that was over a couple of hundred thousand votes. Are we supposed to believe that guy had any impact in the outcome of the county or even state elections?

And is Maryland even a contested state?

https://elections.maryland.gov/elections/2020/results/Genera...

I mean, is that enough in your eyes to throw out all election results from all states and just install an unelected ruler then perhaps democracy wasn't that important to you to begin with.

Don't get me wrong, please do investigate the case and push for all the legal consequences. That's what was done to the Trump supported in the viral video who admitted to have been caught committing voter fraud in 2016 in favour of Trump by trying to cast multiple votes. But in spite of the verified case of voter fraud, no one is disputing the 2016 elections and trying to install the losing candidate, right?

Re: Why Isn't Susan Wojcicki Getting Grilled by Congress?

#24

Post by _v7gu » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 8:17 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #14

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #3

> ”The platform is playing host to, and is an important vector for, spreading false claims of election victory and attempts to delegitimize Biden’s win.” This whole debate seems extremely disingenuous to me. What does it matter if people say Biden didn’t win? It changes nothing. People say all kinds of nonsense, a lot of it way more harmful than arguing over who won an election. I can’t believe the left are advocatin…

>a lot of it way more harmful than arguing over who won an election. there's not much that is more harmful than questioning the legitimate outcome of a democratic election. It can, and is very likely to be a precursor for violence and destabilisation of fundamental institutions. This is not a matter of left and right, it's a matter of truthfulness and peaceful transition of power, which is the most fundamental mechan…

You have it backwards. You don't think that dictators don't meddle with their election results and then silence anyone who questions the integrity of it? Being able to question the system is what supports democracy. Else you'll get a hundred years more of DNC screwing over candidates like Bernie or Tulsi in favor of candidates like Hillary or Joe.

(This claim is disputed. Learn more about how DNC upholds integrity)

Re: Why Isn't Susan Wojcicki Getting Grilled by Congress?

#25

Post by root_axis » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 8:35 AM UTC

vizzier wrote: post #20

root_axis wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So any site with a comment section is social media? You would consider pornhub and HN to be social media?

Social media from wikipedia [1]: - Social media are interactive Web 2.0 Internet-based applications. - User-generated content such as text posts or comments, digital photos or videos, and data generated through all online interactions, is the lifeblood of social media. - Users create service-specific profiles for the website or app that are designed and maintained by the social media organization. - Social media faci…

Wikipedia itself is a social media site too I guess. To me, these definitions seem way too broad, I don't think comments and profiles are sufficient to make something social media, and I think if social media includes sites like pornhub and HN then we need a more meaningful classification.

Re: Why Isn't Susan Wojcicki Getting Grilled by Congress?

#26

Post by crowf » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 8:58 AM UTC

rualca wrote: post #23

crowf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure you're being serious. Has you read the following line you would see that I was not. However, I can point a link to Montgomery county election workers filling in the circles on absentee ballots [0]. I unfortunately can't prove it to you, but I saw a confirmation that my friends grandmother's absentee ballot arrived. The only problem is that see has passed away a few years ago. > But that's not what's ha…

> However, I can point a link to Montgomery county election workers filling in the circles on absentee ballots [0]. Is that your smoking gun? I mean, you're pointing to an article about an incident involving one person working on a single county election suspected of being involved in a single incident where he is suspected of violating a single vote? If I'm not mistaken, in Montgomery county, Maryland, the election…

> Is that your smoking gun?

It is enough to show that _something_ not right happened. Of course it happened I'm a state that always votes one way, so that one video is not enough to change the results. But it is enough to make me wonder where else it happened. I wonder enough so that if there are more incidents then I would have no problem with an investigation. It's not like the budget of whoever is in charge of that is too high. If we have to build one less tank so that elections can be investigated and bring more integrity, then so be it.

> no one is disputing the 2016 elections and trying to install the losing candidate, right?

There are no lack of claims on the left that Stacey Abrams lost the election due to something not democratic.

Re: Why Isn't Susan Wojcicki Getting Grilled by Congress?

#27

Post by cannedslime » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 9:41 AM UTC

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #3

> ”The platform is playing host to, and is an important vector for, spreading false claims of election victory and attempts to delegitimize Biden’s win.” This whole debate seems extremely disingenuous to me. What does it matter if people say Biden didn’t win? It changes nothing. People say all kinds of nonsense, a lot of it way more harmful than arguing over who won an election. I can’t believe the left are advocatin…

[flagged]

Re: Why Isn't Susan Wojcicki Getting Grilled by Congress?

#28

Post by cannedslime » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 9:49 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #14

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #3

> ”The platform is playing host to, and is an important vector for, spreading false claims of election victory and attempts to delegitimize Biden’s win.” This whole debate seems extremely disingenuous to me. What does it matter if people say Biden didn’t win? It changes nothing. People say all kinds of nonsense, a lot of it way more harmful than arguing over who won an election. I can’t believe the left are advocatin…

>a lot of it way more harmful than arguing over who won an election. there's not much that is more harmful than questioning the legitimate outcome of a democratic election. It can, and is very likely to be a precursor for violence and destabilisation of fundamental institutions. This is not a matter of left and right, it's a matter of truthfulness and peaceful transition of power, which is the most fundamental mechan…

And should we just assume that all election outcomes are legitimate? Is all talk of election fraud fake news, or is it only applicable when your candidate seemingly won? Its mere months ago that everyone left to right was frothing at their mouth due to the election in Belarus...

I find it scary that sites like twitter dare to put a sticker on what they believe is fake or misleading, especially when we are talking hundreds of unique video clips and pictures showing obvious dubious actions by election officials, have a particular video been "debunked" ? Fine put on a note saying its false, but I find it dystopic that americans are fine with mega corps defining what truth is...

You have to be pretty blind not to at least think that there was some odd stuff going on in the US elections. The states have become a banana republic where the democrats have become dependent on ballot harvesting of the uneducated masses.

Two party system, every 4 years you must choose between the giant douché or the turd sandwich. The whole world is laughing at Americans and their interpretation of democracy.

Re: Why Isn't Susan Wojcicki Getting Grilled by Congress?

#29

Post by cannedslime » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 9:55 AM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #5

So YouTube is social media now? It's a video entertainment website with comments. Is netflix social media too? What about reddit? HN? Pornhub? What isn't social media.

Yes its a social media and always has been. Its a site with 100% user generated content. Comment system and more. Historically it was even more social since it started out as a video dating site. Furthermore it had a video reply feature until very recently.

The Youtube comment section is one of the most heavily auto moderated platforms on the whole internet and its actually a very valid question why Youtube is not held liable for their dystopian AI powered censorship mechanisms.

Re: Why Isn't Susan Wojcicki Getting Grilled by Congress?

#30

Post by krapp » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 10:13 AM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #25

vizzier wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social media from wikipedia [1]: - Social media are interactive Web 2.0 Internet-based applications. - User-generated content such as text posts or comments, digital photos or videos, and data generated through all online interactions, is the lifeblood of social media. - Users create service-specific profiles for the website or app that are designed and maintained by the social media organization. - Social media faci…

Wikipedia itself is a social media site too I guess. To me, these definitions seem way too broad, I don't think comments and profiles are sufficient to make something social media, and I think if social media includes sites like pornhub and HN then we need a more meaningful classification.

It's not that the definitions are broad, it's that many sites have been incrementally integration social media features over the years in the belief that doing so drives engagement, so the lines between what is and isn't social media (or what should and shouldn't be) have been intentionally blurred. Just as with literary or media genres, "social media" as a classification mostly exists as a marketing term, not science.

And I do believe forums count as social media, albeit a primitive version of it. Hacker News is social media. It has a culture, it has memes, it has gamification and dopamine loops.