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We can do better than DuckDuckGo

drewdevault.com

251–260 of 383 posts

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#251
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use ddg often myself. Google does infer purpose better, and if someone is looking to buy something, it does well there too. Ddg is very good at info queries and the more one uses it, the better it is. What they could do is exactly what google did and that's to review those uses and improve. But what they have right now is solid, given just a tiny bit of work.

The biggest habit I had to break moving from Google to DDG was phrasing everything as a question. If anyone is thinking of making the switch, you can always redirect your searches to Google by throwing a g! in the query.

Funny, I never used questions with Google, until very recently, and only with some queries.

Got good at including words for context early on and never stopped.

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#252

> Instead, it should crawl a whitelist of domains, or “tier 1” domains. These would be the limited mainly to authoritative or high-quality sources for their respective specializations, and would be weighed upwards in search results. Not a big fan of this conclusion. Who chooses the white list, and why should I trust them? Is it democratically chosen? Just because a site is popular very clear does not mean it's trustw…

This is exactly where he lost me. I don't think it is hard at all to find results in "tier 1" domains with DDG. I would argue the we have the opposite problem almost entirely. Besides blogspam / internet cancer and t1 sites you hardly get any results. It's incapable of finding the actually useful communities or blogs for your query.

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#253
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest habit I had to break moving from Google to DDG was phrasing everything as a question. If anyone is thinking of making the switch, you can always redirect your searches to Google by throwing a g! in the query.

> phrasing everything as a question. I wonder if this is generational or cultural? Personally, I dislike trying to interface with a machine using natural language, because I know it can’t really understand me, and I’d rather read and interpret the results for myself than have an algorithm pick the “best”. I actually find speaking to machines (e.g. automated phone systems, Siri etc) using natural language quite embarr…

This. We do not have machines able to sort meaning out yet, so why bother?

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#254
post #60

SEO is crushing the utility of Google. It is pretty telling when you need to add things like site:reddit.com to get anything of value. Harnessing real user experiences (blogs, etc) is the key to a better search engine. This model unfortunately crumbles under walled gardens which is increasingly the preferred location of user activity.

That’s where blogs were at, but now a massive portion of them are content farms / splogs. You’re right that the walled gardens have hurt this. So often I search something specific, or a topic, and find very little. But I know there are communities on Facebook for this, I know there would be peoples posts out there on Instagram which 100% answer my question. But they may as well not exist. Unless I was “following” the…

Combined with disinformation campaigns and post-truth phenomena, what we defined as "the information age" seems to have been short lived.

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#255

Drew in his blog post talking about DuckDuckGo privacy issues, but his commercial startup Sourcehut does not offer the Privacy basics: 1. Account deletion 2. GDPR data request 3. Option to unsubscribe from emails So right now his blog reminds me one famous US politician Twitter account. Never fix your own problems, just blame others more often.

I normally would not reply to someone who equates my blog posts with the ravings of a megalomaniacal fachist, but I will at least clarify for the benefit of onlookers that all three of these points are false. I handle account deletion and GDPR requests all the time, and every email you get from sr.ht (1) is not a marketing email and (2) can be trivially unsubsribed from, with the exception of payment notifications - which is not only allowed per the GPDR, but a lot better than silently charging you a recurring payment forever.

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#256
I don't fully understand something about the general tech industry discourse around search and would love to hear if I'm wrong.

Here's my brief and slightly made up history of search engines:

In the beginning of time, search engines took a Boolean query (duck AND pond) and found all the documents which contained both words using an inverted index and then returned them in something like descending date order. But for queries which had big result sets, this order wasn't very useful and so search engines began letting users enter more "natural language" queries (duck pond) and sorting documents based on the number of terms that overlap with the query. They came up with a bunch of relevance formulas - tfidf, BM25 - that tried to model the query overlap. But it turns out this is tricky because user intent is a really tricky problem and so modern day search engines just declare that relevance is whatever users click on. Specifically they just model the probability that you're going to click on a link (or something) using a DNN that uses things like the individual term overlap, the number of users that have clicked on this link, the probability it's spam, the PageRank etc. Some search engines like Google also include personalized features like the number of times you have clicked on this particular domain - because for instance as a programmer your query of (Java) might have different intent than your grandmother's. This score then gets used to sort the results into a ranked list. This is why search engines (DDG included) collect all this data - because it makes the relevance problem tractable at web scale.

Maybe just my perspective but I just really don't understand why OP would want to build an index - it's hard boring expensive and doesn't violate data privacy - and I don't think people grasp that - at least to some extent - data privacy and relevance are in direct conflict?

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#257
I think the only way to get an open search engine going is to specifically target a niche first, build profit from ad results, and then expand.

My suggestion? Older folks don't have a well known search engine targeted at them, and there are features that could make a search engine helpful for them (High contrast mode or built in screen reading for the vision impaired, anti fraud results for common scams that target seniors based on search results, links to places to watch old shows when people search for character names), and they are a lucrative demographic, both in terms of having money to buy things but also for political ads.

I'm sure a focus group of seniors would have more detailed thoughts.

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#258
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its hard to get readership writing blogs these days. Thats pretty demotivating.

Also difficult to distinguish a blog from a content farm if you are just crawling the web. Any content pattern you select for would likely be quickly adopted by SEOs.

I've found a direct correlation between the chance of a content farm and the number of ads on the blog. With 0 ads, the likelyhook of a content farm is 0%.

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#259
The whitelist approach reminds me of Yahoo's internet directory or DMOZ. The internet directories all ended up closing.

That approach will not scale in the general case, not even with the search engine following links from said sites. Too many areas of interest, too many languages, nowhere near enough people to categorize 'high-quality' sites all the time.

It could work for domain-specific searches for expert communities. SourceHut should start with a good code search engine...

Re: We can do better than DuckDuckGo

#260

This is why search is hard: 15% of Google searches are new each day. [1] And, with over 1.7+ billion web pages, [2] it would take a gargantuan open source effort to put something together like this. Not to mention the cost, not sure something like this could be sustained with a Wikipedia-esque "please donate $15" fundraising model. [1] https://searchengineland.com/google-reaffirms-15-searches-ne... [2] https://www.we…

Why is the ratio of new queries relevant at all?

The open alternative to Google doesn't need to have the same capacity for download and indexing.

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