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The biology of dads

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Re: The biology of dads

#91

Post by MaximumYComb »

hi41 wrote: post #79

When we has our first child, it came as a total shock as to the amount of work that was needed. I was completely unprepared for it. Added to my wife’s work schedule and mine, I was stuck between changing diapers and kitchen. I absolutely HATED fatherhood. Did anyone have the same experience and how did you overcome the frustration to become a good father.

Babies aren't meant to be fun. I became a single dad when I had a baby and a two year old. Honestly, I don't think most men are wired for doing this role. The 4-5 years that followed were very difficult for me mentally. I was socially isolated, had no support (all support structures were mother orientated) and I had two really little kids to care for.

I'm not sure if I changed, or it's simply easier for me now they're a bit older, but over time I had merged into this parenting role really well. My kids are both happy and well balanced, other kids and adults both like them and they're doing really well at school.

Re: The biology of dads

#92

Post by zarkov99 »

antisthenes wrote: post #88
rootusrootus wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes IMO this really describes almost everyone , not just fathers. There's a pretty big disconnect between our cultural ideal, and reality. Half of American men are fat whether they have a kid or not.

> There's a pretty big disconnect between our cultural ideal, and reality. As someone who isn't a native-born American, is that really your cultural ideal? Warriors and athletes? Because to an outsider that just seems...laughable at best, and for more reasons than just rampant obesity.

Why? What is your culture's cultural ideal?

Re: The biology of dads

#93

Post by flatline »

zero_deg_kevin wrote: post #2

Any ideas on how to get them to stick around after their kids are born? Asking for a friend.

From the article there are actually a number of weak correlates: a man with smaller testes, for example. But it concludes with the prefrontal cortex being the largest discriminator, all other factors considered. It would seem that picking a partner who is capable and willing to use rational thought to override emotional responses would be a successful strategy - more capable of dealing with the frustrating reality of childcare, less likely to leave in search of another mate.

Re: The biology of dads

#94

Post by zarkov99 »

ksdale wrote: post #58

"They seemed like ideal infant-caregivers: calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes – think Maximus, Achilles or Michael Jordan – often associated with a masculine ideal." I became a father quite a bit before most of my friends, and so was the butt of some jokes about masculinity for the way I parent…

I feel exactly the same way, with respect to "going to battle". Things got much more real after kids, its you they look to when things go wrong and you better have it together.

Re: The biology of dads

#95

Post by geerlingguy »

bluedays wrote: post #75
bcrosby95 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have enough kids it's kinda a sink or swim moment: you learn to tune it out or go crazy. We have twin 2 year olds and a 5 year old. There's been periods of time where there's crying (by at least one of them) for most of the day. When you're 1 on 3 at these sorts of ages it's inevitable. When 1 starts crying in the car and the other 2 start crying because the crying is too loud, there's not much you can do but…

She's three now. I can definitely relate to the orange thing.

The orange thing happened last night here. Wife peeled pith of, 4 yo went ballistic for 10 minutes.

Re: The biology of dads

#96

Post by endymi0n »

christophilus wrote: post #68
yellowstuff wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see this as paradoxical. For babies past a couple months old a lot of cries are actually manipulative, and a more empathetic person can better distinguish them. I think my wife and I started sleeping training our son at around 12 weeks old, and quickly learned to tell the difference between a "complaining" cry that meant he was unhappy but he could probably soothe himself, and a "real" cry that meant he was r…

Did you have a hard time convincing your wife to do sleep training on your kid? My wife thinks it’s abusive. I think it’s abusive to everyone else in the house not to do it!

Don't know. Thought the same, but my wife said one thing that stuck with me: "Life's short. They'll leave on their own anyway and then you'll miss this".

I gave in and still put our 4 and 6 year olds to sleep in our big family bed, then teleport them later. After being a bit annoyed in the beginning, I've changed my mind by now. Bringing them to bed is honestly the best thing ever.

Re: The biology of dads

#97

Post by mattgreenrocks »

jedimastert wrote: post #64
bluedays wrote: post #20

>Paradoxically, we found that fathers who activate the anterior cingulate the most when listening to infant crying report the most negative emotional responses to those cries, in particular being more likely to label the cry as spoiled or manipulative. How can greater engagement of a brain region associated with empathy be linked with such negative subjective reactions to the cry? We suspect it relates to a phenomeno…

> The newborn phase was really hard for me So many people led me to believe that I would fall in love with my kid the instant I first laid eyes on her, and it simply wasn't the case. I love her so much now, but it definitely wasn't the immediate flip of a switch that some may believe

Same with me. I think a few people overstate the feeling of their new bond to the point that it's supposedly become normal.

Re: The biology of dads

#98

Post by CapitalistCartr »

I became a dad quite late in life, at 55. It's been an eye-opener. After several months I suddenly realized I'd kill and die for this little bundle. Then it occurred to me that most, if not all, of these parents walking around me are the same.

Being a dad has led me to consider it carefully. I've concluded that, since humans are terrible at long-term planning, deferment of benefit, and putting the benefit of the group ahead of personal gain. So Darwin doesn't rely on any of that, or any decision-making at all. Parenting a baby/small child pushes a lot of major buttons in humans. Hard. Like no drug ever. It is its own reward, which is good; children aren't known for their gratefulness.

Re: The biology of dads

#99

Post by frenchyatwork »

ksdale wrote: post #58

"They seemed like ideal infant-caregivers: calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes – think Maximus, Achilles or Michael Jordan – often associated with a masculine ideal." I became a father quite a bit before most of my friends, and so was the butt of some jokes about masculinity for the way I parent…

> Also, somewhat ironic, but my willingness to "go to battle" for my family is far greater than my willingness to "go to battle" for anything before having a family

I'd bet the "for my family" part is critical to this statement though, and in the modern "Western" world, at least, such circumstances are exceedingly rare.

I'm less inclined to go mountaineering or ice climbing, to give a more realistic example, partly because of the risk, and quality time at home (both with family and alone) is a pretty limited resource.

Re: The biology of dads

#100

Post by mattgreenrocks »

epx wrote: post #50
commandlinefan wrote: post #18

I was shocked how much more _patient_ I became - with everybody - after raising kids. It makes perfect sense, though: I had no choice but to learn relentless patience.

+1, I even started to "cry as a woman" after bad dreams or so. That started before the kid was born, even. My kid never had problems to sleep, he is by far more easygoing than either myself or even my wife, so I cannot blame external factors that forced me to be more patient or sympathetic. One basically gets a firmware upgrade when becomes a father.

There's a quote along these lines: "the son parents the father."

It's always stuck with me for reasons that I'm sure you can relate to.

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