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The biology of dads

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Re: The biology of dads

#81

Post by deberon »

Mmrnmhrm wrote: post #67
softwaredoug wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this only gets worse when they get older. A dangerous thing that can happen is when you over-identify with your kids. Like being the overbearing sports-parent that pushes their kid to succeed because you see it as an extension of your success. I think every parent runs into this to some degree. I have to remind myself they are different people with their own wants, needs, values, and criteria for what "success" means…

If you have any resources on how to manage anxiety please bring them on. My old son has a mild development impairment, I am the sole bread earner, and we have no family support (we live abroad). Anxiety is crippling me to the point of rupture.

Talk to somebody. A licensed professional would be best, but a significant other or trusted friend will work too. You have to get your thoughts out into the real world so you can process them. Journaling helps with this. Also, focus on your well-being. Make sure you're getting enough exercise, take up yoga, find a productive hobby, etc. If you have a significant other, make sure you stay communicative. As a parent it's easy to sacrifice your well-being for the sake of the family, but the family will work best if you're healthy.

Re: The biology of dads

#82

Post by Viliam1234 »

zero_deg_kevin wrote: post #2

Any ideas on how to get them to stick around after their kids are born? Asking for a friend.

Depends. "All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Karenina_principle

But I think the majority of cases could be covered by these two things: (1) Choose the right person; don't expect that someone will magically change after the kids are born. (2) Don't let your partner feel like a fifth wheel, or rather like a mere money machine, after the kids are born.

Re: The biology of dads

#83

Post by rootusrootus »

ksdale wrote: post #58

"They seemed like ideal infant-caregivers: calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes – think Maximus, Achilles or Michael Jordan – often associated with a masculine ideal." I became a father quite a bit before most of my friends, and so was the butt of some jokes about masculinity for the way I parent…

> calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes

IMO this really describes almost everyone, not just fathers. There's a pretty big disconnect between our cultural ideal, and reality. Half of American men are fat whether they have a kid or not.

Re: The biology of dads

#84

Post by [deleted] »

mysterydip wrote: post #80
bcrosby95 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have enough kids it's kinda a sink or swim moment: you learn to tune it out or go crazy. We have twin 2 year olds and a 5 year old. There's been periods of time where there's crying (by at least one of them) for most of the day. When you're 1 on 3 at these sorts of ages it's inevitable. When 1 starts crying in the car and the other 2 start crying because the crying is too loud, there's not much you can do but…

Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone. I have a 5yo and twin 2yos myself and the dynamic between them drives me crazy sometimes.

[deleted]

Re: The biology of dads

#85

Post by dang »

carabiner wrote: post #49

I am so glad I had a vasectomy and that I never had kids. My life is unspoilt, and I celebrate it every day.

Ok, but putting this comment in this thread is not only off topic but basically trolling. Please don't do that on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The biology of dads

#86

Post by gabereiser »

ksdale wrote: post #58

"They seemed like ideal infant-caregivers: calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes – think Maximus, Achilles or Michael Jordan – often associated with a masculine ideal." I became a father quite a bit before most of my friends, and so was the butt of some jokes about masculinity for the way I parent…

I echo this. I’m an empty nester now but when I was raising kids (really early on) most of my friends were going to bars and didn’t understand the responsibility. Now they are all having kids and looking to me for answers... like there’s a manual for kids.

I felt the most pride in my life watching my step-daughter get her diploma. I, a masculine man who was taught to bottle it all up and stuff upper lip, cried like a baby.

Those who have kids know. Those who don’t just will never understand.

Re: The biology of dads

#87

Post by hazeii »

ksdale wrote: post #58

"They seemed like ideal infant-caregivers: calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes – think Maximus, Achilles or Michael Jordan – often associated with a masculine ideal." I became a father quite a bit before most of my friends, and so was the butt of some jokes about masculinity for the way I parent…

At the other end, I became a father quite a bit after all of my friends; now I get what they couldn't get me to understand before.

Re: The biology of dads

#88

Post by antisthenes »

rootusrootus wrote: post #83
ksdale wrote: post #58

"They seemed like ideal infant-caregivers: calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes – think Maximus, Achilles or Michael Jordan – often associated with a masculine ideal." I became a father quite a bit before most of my friends, and so was the butt of some jokes about masculinity for the way I parent…

> calm, gentle, patient and sensitive. They didn’t seem like men you would go to battle with. In fact, they were the very antithesis of the warriors and athletes IMO this really describes almost everyone , not just fathers. There's a pretty big disconnect between our cultural ideal, and reality. Half of American men are fat whether they have a kid or not.

> There's a pretty big disconnect between our cultural ideal, and reality.

As someone who isn't a native-born American, is that really your cultural ideal? Warriors and athletes?

Because to an outsider that just seems...laughable at best, and for more reasons than just rampant obesity.

Re: The biology of dads

#89

Post by crankyoldcrank »

yellowstuff wrote: post #63
bluedays wrote: post #20

>Paradoxically, we found that fathers who activate the anterior cingulate the most when listening to infant crying report the most negative emotional responses to those cries, in particular being more likely to label the cry as spoiled or manipulative. How can greater engagement of a brain region associated with empathy be linked with such negative subjective reactions to the cry? We suspect it relates to a phenomeno…

I don't see this as paradoxical. For babies past a couple months old a lot of cries are actually manipulative, and a more empathetic person can better distinguish them. I think my wife and I started sleeping training our son at around 12 weeks old, and quickly learned to tell the difference between a "complaining" cry that meant he was unhappy but he could probably soothe himself, and a "real" cry that meant he was r…

I have a sibling with a degree in early childhood development and what you're describing is what she told me is called, colloquially where we're from, "cry it out" parenting, and it can result in negative outcomes related to the child's attachment style and their ability to form relationships even into adulthood.

Babies that are not attended to when crying, alone at night in a separate room, are more likely to develop an attachment style similar to a child who has been abandoned by their parents.

It's really not healthy. Now, I'm not an expert either, but my sister is and you'd get an earful from her for your comment as it is potentially very harmful advice.

I hope readers here hear my concern more than anything: don't take parenting advice from random people on HN! If you're considering "cry it out" parenting, or its inverse, attachment parenting, talk to a professional before ignoring your crying baby because it's "manipulative" or "can soothe itself". We're talking about a developmental stage that comes before -object permanence- and the comment above refers to -emotional manipulation- from an infant?

Please folks, try to understand when you're talking about something outside of your field...

Re: The biology of dads

#90

Post by endymi0n »

jedimastert wrote: post #64
bluedays wrote: post #20

>Paradoxically, we found that fathers who activate the anterior cingulate the most when listening to infant crying report the most negative emotional responses to those cries, in particular being more likely to label the cry as spoiled or manipulative. How can greater engagement of a brain region associated with empathy be linked with such negative subjective reactions to the cry? We suspect it relates to a phenomeno…

> The newborn phase was really hard for me So many people led me to believe that I would fall in love with my kid the instant I first laid eyes on her, and it simply wasn't the case. I love her so much now, but it definitely wasn't the immediate flip of a switch that some may believe

I also really, really wasn't into babies before becoming a father, then when they were there, it was actually kinda okay — but now that they can talk, reason and you can mess with them, it's definitely _so_ much cooler.

What's interesting though is that for me, having spent time with a baby seems to have changed some wirings retroactively. Just saw a toddler yesterday doing random things and having so much fun in the puddles, it was reeeeally cute. Good memories.

What nobody tells you though is that annoyingness and cuteness go hand in hand. As soon as they stop being annoying, they also stop being cute. It's hard to enjoy much of that cuteness because life's generally hard, loud and exhausting with a toddler. But as soon as it starts getting better, you also realize how much you miss that will never come back.

As Paul Graham said so wisely: There are only 52 weekends you will ever have with your three year old. Life is short, use it. Or at the very least, try to :)

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