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China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

latimes.com

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Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#21

Post by platinumrad »

jruthers wrote: post #7
bArray wrote: post #3

The reason they continue to do this is because they know without doubt other Countries will not treat their fishing vessels in the same way. There is zero consequences for their actions and they have zero reason to change their policy. You might say "the consequence is that they look bad", but they don't, at least not to the people they care about - mainlanders. They own and/or control the news media in mainland Chin…

Good analysis. Realistically, no entity, government or otherwise is taking any concrete steps to say no to China in the south China Sea. Doing "drive bys" is hardly actual action, like say dismantling a Chinese base made in international waters. THAT would be concrete action, and I bet they would get all upset but ultimately do nothing (unless it's too Australia, in which case they'll find some other product to ban).…

Sad that yellow peril alarmism with no basis in reality is what counts as "good analysis" when the orange website talks about China.

Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#22

Post by zksjejwbs »

hvdfhbj wrote: post #15
zaptrem wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like you have no “legitimate” “claim” to your smartphone, hand it over. Conquest isn’t the only way countries gain territory by a long shot, and whataboutism can’t justify what China’s doing today either.

A better point would be that the current CCP regime in Beijing has no legitimate claim to be any kind of government with any legal claim over any territory whatsoever. An unelected government is not a government, it's just a group of thugs who happen to have control over a capital city. If China has any sort of legitimate government at all it's the one in Taiwan which was at least elected by somebody . But really, ma…

Your knowledge of history is so little that for you Washington is the guy who prints green notes.

Jokes aside if the legitimate government are only the elected one lets wipe 2/3 of the world's government lol.

Taiwan is a dispute territory because the kuomintang after they lost the civil war in China they moved to Taiwan and claimed the territory. Taiwan was not even a democracy after that but rather a military dictatorship with the martial law being applied till 1987 (from 1949, year in which they lost the civil war in China)

Only after that Taiwan started to open their system and allow general election in the 1990s (in some form in 1991, 1992 and presidential election only in 1996)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Taiwan

Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#23

Post by platinumrad »

bArray wrote: post #3

The reason they continue to do this is because they know without doubt other Countries will not treat their fishing vessels in the same way. There is zero consequences for their actions and they have zero reason to change their policy. You might say "the consequence is that they look bad", but they don't, at least not to the people they care about - mainlanders. They own and/or control the news media in mainland Chin…

You're delusional if you think that western media, which is presumably what you're referring to when you say "external "free" media" (your scare quotes, not mine), holds back when it comes to negative coverage of China. In reality, editorial standards go out the window when it comes to China and other adversary states like Russia and North Korea. How many times has Kim Jong-un supposedly died just this year? When was the last time a piece on Xinjiang cited a single "China watcher" who isn't Adrian Zenz?

Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#24

Post by yorwba »

platinumrad wrote: post #21
jruthers wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good analysis. Realistically, no entity, government or otherwise is taking any concrete steps to say no to China in the south China Sea. Doing "drive bys" is hardly actual action, like say dismantling a Chinese base made in international waters. THAT would be concrete action, and I bet they would get all upset but ultimately do nothing (unless it's too Australia, in which case they'll find some other product to ban).…

Sad that yellow peril alarmism with no basis in reality is what counts as "good analysis" when the orange website talks about China.

It's not the whole orange website, just two people who happen to agree in shared ignorance. You shouldn't take that to mean that everyone here thinks the same.

Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#25

Post by GauntletWizard »

ainiriand wrote: post #13
bArray wrote: post #3

The reason they continue to do this is because they know without doubt other Countries will not treat their fishing vessels in the same way. There is zero consequences for their actions and they have zero reason to change their policy. You might say "the consequence is that they look bad", but they don't, at least not to the people they care about - mainlanders. They own and/or control the news media in mainland Chin…

There are many examples of different countries shooting Chinese fishing boats. This is just the first example but you can find many more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3lkM4t8AaA

They fired a series of warning shots. Had the put a dent in that hull, there would have been an immense amount of outrage from China.

Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#26

Post by throwaway445 »

bArray wrote: post #3

The reason they continue to do this is because they know without doubt other Countries will not treat their fishing vessels in the same way. There is zero consequences for their actions and they have zero reason to change their policy. You might say "the consequence is that they look bad", but they don't, at least not to the people they care about - mainlanders. They own and/or control the news media in mainland Chin…

Stop giving any more of your money directly to Beijing (no more Thinkpads).

Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#27

Post by tim333 »

platinumrad wrote: post #21
jruthers wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good analysis. Realistically, no entity, government or otherwise is taking any concrete steps to say no to China in the south China Sea. Doing "drive bys" is hardly actual action, like say dismantling a Chinese base made in international waters. THAT would be concrete action, and I bet they would get all upset but ultimately do nothing (unless it's too Australia, in which case they'll find some other product to ban).…

Sad that yellow peril alarmism with no basis in reality is what counts as "good analysis" when the orange website talks about China.

What's unrealistic about the above? Seems pretty accurate to me.

Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#28

Post by roenxi »

We don't really know what the slow-rolling effects of shutting down a double-digit percentage of the world's economy is. War is a distinct possibility; we know from WWI that everything seems fine until everyone mobilises all at once.

I hope the LA times are taking their responsibilities seriously and not reporting things in an incendiary way. I'd rather see an unfair peace in Asia than a big war in my lifetime. The US is an underdog against China here, China is bigger, has more ability to exert power and has much at stake.

Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#29

Post by platinumrad »

tim333 wrote: post #27
platinumrad wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad that yellow peril alarmism with no basis in reality is what counts as "good analysis" when the orange website talks about China.

What's unrealistic about the above? Seems pretty accurate to me.

>The reason they continue to do this is because they know without doubt other Countries will not treat their fishing vessels in the same way. There is zero consequences for their actions and they have zero reason to change their policy.

This paragraph completely decontextualizes what's going on and makes it sound like the Chinese state is just rolling around blowing up ships for fun. In reality, fishing in international waters has always been messy.

>You might say "the consequence is that they look bad", but they don't, at least not to the people they care about - mainlanders. They own and/or control the news media in mainland China. To produce an anti-CCP news piece in China is suicide for these companies.

This is just orientalism. Unlike us normal westerners, they don't care about what other people think! How scary!

>External "free" media have their own interests and biases, meaning they may or may not publish articles depending on whether they coincide with their goals. If a bad China news piece makes the current President they support look bad, do you really think it makes headline news?

This is delusional, as I discuss here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25121329

>Doing "drive bys" is hardly actual action, like say dismantling a Chinese base made in international waters. THAT would be concrete action, and I bet they would get all upset but ultimately do nothing (unless it's too Australia, in which case they'll find some other product to ban).

This is just bloodthirsty lol.

Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#30

Post by yorwba »

dirtyid wrote: post #12
bArray wrote: post #3

The reason they continue to do this is because they know without doubt other Countries will not treat their fishing vessels in the same way. There is zero consequences for their actions and they have zero reason to change their policy. You might say "the consequence is that they look bad", but they don't, at least not to the people they care about - mainlanders. They own and/or control the news media in mainland Chin…

>will not treat their fishing vessels in the same way. Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia, Japan, Taiwan, South/North Korea have all seized Chinese fishing vessels before. Some recently. These countries also regularly seize each other's illegal fishing boats, the entire region is an overlapping web maritime disputes. The difference is China is a juggernaut, larger in population and economy than all other claim…

> Chinese reclaiming at Chinese scale will crush everyone else.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The whole reason they have to resort to land reclamation to create artificial islands for their military bases is that they were late to the party and all the good spots on existing islands were already taken, mostly by Vietnamese bases: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Spratly_...

Now holding those islands doesn't help Vietnamese fishermen much when they encounter other countries' coast guards out in the open sea, but the bases still provide a convenient place to shelter if they happen to be close by.

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