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China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

latimes.com

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Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#3
The reason they continue to do this is because they know without doubt other Countries will not treat their fishing vessels in the same way. There is zero consequences for their actions and they have zero reason to change their policy.

You might say "the consequence is that they look bad", but they don't, at least not to the people they care about - mainlanders. They own and/or control the news media in mainland China. To produce an anti-CCP news piece in China is suicide for these companies.

External "free" media have their own interests and biases, meaning they may or may not publish articles depending on whether they coincide with their goals. If a bad China news piece makes the current President they support look bad, do you really think it makes headline news?

Honestly, I'm not really sure what to suggest here. Some HN users will post some ideas no doubt, but ultimately the most concerning thing is that none seem to have naturally emerged dominant so far.

Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#5
post #4

It turns out that many of China's territorial claims in the South China Sea are simply the result of errors in translations and cartography. They have no legitimate basis in law or history. http://cimsec.org/chinas-claim-spratly-islands-just-mistake/...

No country has any “legitimate” claims to any land either.

Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#6
This article spans a few different concerns with China's increasing aggression in foreign policy as it concerns the South China Sea:

First, the Chinese fishing fleets increasingly are venturing far away from their own shores, just as fleets from other nearby countries are also venturing further from their own shores. This is because shore fishing is drying up, due to unsustainable overfishing and ecological collapse. China's distant fishing fleets are thought to have caused the deaths of impoverished North Koreans, by taking over catches from their waters (https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/china-illegal-fishing-fleet...). They are also taking over West African and Antarctic waters (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/09/beijing-fishing-...). They even have tried to fish off the Galapagos using giant factory fishing ships that allegedly turned off their AIS maritime tracking signals to avoid detection (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/oct/21/china-sq...). China operates the world's largest fishing fleet, with the largest volume of catch, and their scale of operation threatens environments and fishing economies worldwide.

Secondly, the Chinese fishing fleet is highly aggressive and often violent. The NBC article I linked above details an incident where a large number of Chinese fishing vessels took shelter in a South Korean bay to ride out a storm, and also destroyed the environment during their short stay, illegally dumping oil, dragging anchors, and more. The LA times article I linked here also details how bigger Chinese fishing vessels (often with steel hulls subsidized by the Chinese government) will ram smaller fishing vessels from countries like Vietnam or the Philippines. They often steal equipment off those vessels, and even their entire catch, and leave the ship adrift and in need of repairs. And as the LA Times article noted, there are barbaric incidents where crew will hurl hammers or cement blocks at foreign crews of smaller vessels, or even beat them.

Thirdly, encroachment in South China Sea waters is enabled by the increasing aggression of the Chinese naval fleet. Despite naval exercises by the US to assert rights of navigation, China has continued to expand a web of artificial islands that host barely-hidden naval installations with airstrips, missiles, and more. Although the US has made public statements asserting that China's claims to the South China Sea are unlawful (https://www.state.gov/u-s-position-on-maritime-claims-in-the...), that has not changed much on the ground for smaller nations who are victims of China's bullying on the high seas. In fact, in 2020 China's operations in the South China Sea are more aggressive than ever, with COVID serving as a convenient distraction for increased naval imperialism (https://asiatimes.com/2020/04/chinas-covid-19-imperialism-sp...). With increasingly frequent incidents where one country detains another country's fishing vessels and crew, the situation is becoming charged and tense (https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/12/asia/malaysia-china-japan-sea...). China is accordingly stepping up its military activities, with naval exercises (https://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/china/2020/c...) and testing of anti-ship ballistic missiles (https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37662/chinese-long-ran...).

Taking all this together, I can't help but view it as a complete failure of other Asian countries to cooperate against a mutual aggressor, and a failure of the liberal West to manage and contain China to the interest of many nations. Empty diplomatic statements, political posturing, and ineffective performative naval exercises are not the answer to a violent and aggressive actor. But no one is stepping up to answer the calls for help from poorer countries like Vietnam.

Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#7
post #3

The reason they continue to do this is because they know without doubt other Countries will not treat their fishing vessels in the same way. There is zero consequences for their actions and they have zero reason to change their policy. You might say "the consequence is that they look bad", but they don't, at least not to the people they care about - mainlanders. They own and/or control the news media in mainland Chin…

Good analysis.

Realistically, no entity, government or otherwise is taking any concrete steps to say no to China in the south China Sea.

Doing "drive bys" is hardly actual action, like say dismantling a Chinese base made in international waters. THAT would be concrete action, and I bet they would get all upset but ultimately do nothing (unless it's too Australia, in which case they'll find some other product to ban).

If nobody is going to stand up to them, it's all over already. In a generation, people will just say "oh isn't that all China's territory?"

Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#8
post #5
post #4

It turns out that many of China's territorial claims in the South China Sea are simply the result of errors in translations and cartography. They have no legitimate basis in law or history. http://cimsec.org/chinas-claim-spratly-islands-just-mistake/...

No country has any “legitimate” claims to any land either.

Just like you have no “legitimate” “claim” to your smartphone, hand it over.

Conquest isn’t the only way countries gain territory by a long shot, and whataboutism can’t justify what China’s doing today either.

Re: China attacks fishing boats in conquest of South China Sea

#10

Is there any hope that the recent RCEP agreements would help the situation, or was this simply ignored during negotiations?

RCEP is mostly about tariffs and does not discuss concerns like environmental protection or border disputes. Ironically RCEP includes virtually all the nations that are at odds with China over naval and fishing aggression: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Comprehensive_Economi...
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