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Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

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Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#41

Post by pdonis »

pydry wrote: post #14
wombatpm wrote: post #5

If we really want body cameras to work, there needs to be penalties for nonuse. For example lack of body camera removes qualified immunity protections for the officer(s) in question. My personal philosophy is that if called to be on a criminal jury, if the case relies on the officer's testimony and there is no camera, I will return a verdict of not guilty under the justification that the state has failed to prove its…

America desperately needs a national internal affairs department with an entirely separate reporting line whose boss answers directly to the president (or at least state governors). They could purchase, maintain the body cameras, collect and handle the footage and be trusted. If Biden is looking to score some points this would be a good way.

No. This is not a national government problem. This is a local government problem. The solution is for citizens of those cities and counties to hold their local governments accountable and vote them out of office if they don't fix the problem. The last thing we need is more big government, one-size-fits-none policies dictated from above. We need more local people solving their own local problems.

It would also help if police were not tasked with enforcing a litany of nanny state laws that shouldn't even be on the books to begin with. Any cop that wants to mess with a citizen can always find some excuse; with all the laws we have, all of us are violating some law every day.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#42

Post by wmeredith »

eplanit wrote: post #22

Chicago has one of the highest murder rates in the U.S.[0], and is rising rapidly[1]; but, invariably the criticism is focused solely on the police. By the weight of coverage and outrage, one would think that Chicago faces no issues other than bad police. Yes they should have their body cams on. Why so little attention to the reality in Chicago that the police are facing? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Uni…

This is textbook whataboutism and the answer as always is that one problem's existence doesn't preclude the treatment of another. How about we address both problems? This article is talking about the police problem.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#43

Post by [deleted] »

eplanit wrote: post #22

Chicago has one of the highest murder rates in the U.S.[0], and is rising rapidly[1]; but, invariably the criticism is focused solely on the police. By the weight of coverage and outrage, one would think that Chicago faces no issues other than bad police. Yes they should have their body cams on. Why so little attention to the reality in Chicago that the police are facing? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Uni…

[deleted]

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#44

Post by pdonis »

bigbubba wrote: post #29
pydry wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as i know it's more or less handled by police forces themselves with predictable results.

It's my understanding that the FBI is meant to handle matters of state or local government corruption, which I would think includes police departments that circle their wagons and protecting criminal cops. Probably they need to be doing a better job of it, but I believe they're meant to be (among other things) the organization you describe above. I'm not really familiar with the details, but it's my understanding the…

> the FBI is meant to handle matters of state or local government corruption

They have a certain amount of ability to do that if the state or local government is violating Federal law. But they do not have general oversight or police powers, since the Federal government as a whole does not. Nor is it supposed to.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#45

Post by canada_dry »

It's beyond incredible that we allow a "no knock warrant" (e.g. Breonna Taylor) with police that have body cams, yet there is no standard practice that says a senior officer must ensure they are operating and recording BEFORE they begin.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#46

Post by davidf560 »

mattlondon wrote: post #35
wombatmobile wrote: post #9

> The cameras are relatively simple to operate. They constantly record everything in front of them, but only save 30 seconds of video at a time. To record an entire incident, the officer must double press the “event” button in the center of the camera. So non-compliance is the default. And compliance failure is as easy as an incorrect double-press that fails to start recording. Is there even any feedback that the dou…

Madness. "woops - accidentally shot someone for no reason. Better press save on the body camera so I can be prosecuted/sacked!"

Cameras now are starting to include technology where the camera is automatically activated as soon as the officer draws their weapon.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#47

Post by eigenman »

pydry wrote: post #14
wombatpm wrote: post #5

If we really want body cameras to work, there needs to be penalties for nonuse. For example lack of body camera removes qualified immunity protections for the officer(s) in question. My personal philosophy is that if called to be on a criminal jury, if the case relies on the officer's testimony and there is no camera, I will return a verdict of not guilty under the justification that the state has failed to prove its…

America desperately needs a national internal affairs department with an entirely separate reporting line whose boss answers directly to the president (or at least state governors). They could purchase, maintain the body cameras, collect and handle the footage and be trusted. If Biden is looking to score some points this would be a good way.

Most police departments have internal affairs departments, but these are largely toothless. I would not expect a national organization to perform much better. The incentives simply are not aligned: it is easy to see a politician leaning on the department saying "this will make me look bad, make it go away."

I think what would be more powerful would be to empower citizens to bring criminal cases against police offers acting in their official capacity. Then at least we could be assured that the prosecutors are motivated to win the case for their clients.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#48

Post by bfuclusion »

pdonis wrote: post #41
pydry wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America desperately needs a national internal affairs department with an entirely separate reporting line whose boss answers directly to the president (or at least state governors). They could purchase, maintain the body cameras, collect and handle the footage and be trusted. If Biden is looking to score some points this would be a good way.

No. This is not a national government problem. This is a local government problem. The solution is for citizens of those cities and counties to hold their local governments accountable and vote them out of office if they don't fix the problem. The last thing we need is more big government, one-size-fits-none policies dictated from above. We need more local people solving their own local problems. It would also help i…

I don't think it can be broken down so simply. It's clear that the constitution has provisions specifically covering this (ex: 4th amendment), so the Federal courts at least have an interest in seeing the cases. As the highest law in the land, it's also pretty clear the 14th gives SOME federal oversight of violations of citizen's rights.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#49

Post by seibelj »

noodlesUK wrote: post #36
backtoyoujim wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we need is for them to have to carry personally paid malpractice insurance that is tied to their access to qualified immunity. And if their camera is off they lose their insurance policy. Then no more access to qualified immunity. Being police is a luxury not a right.

We don’t need to create a private insurance market for yet another part of American life. Other countries have real oversight bodies with teeth that build public trust. It’s important that justice is done in these cases of abuse, and it also needs to be seen to be done by the public, which builds trust in the institutions of state.

The point of insurance is they have to pay for it personally. If the government pays for insurance and also pays for penalties, we are in the same situation we are today.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#50

Post by pydry »

pdonis wrote: post #41
pydry wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America desperately needs a national internal affairs department with an entirely separate reporting line whose boss answers directly to the president (or at least state governors). They could purchase, maintain the body cameras, collect and handle the footage and be trusted. If Biden is looking to score some points this would be a good way.

No. This is not a national government problem. This is a local government problem. The solution is for citizens of those cities and counties to hold their local governments accountable and vote them out of office if they don't fix the problem. The last thing we need is more big government, one-size-fits-none policies dictated from above. We need more local people solving their own local problems. It would also help i…

This is absolutely a national problem.

Moreover corrupt cops thrive because of close knit relationships between local DAs, local law enforcement, local judges and local politicians. A national wrecking ball is needed to break these toxic corrupt relationships and a strong, national institution is needed to create the institutional inertia against systemic police corruption from arising again.

You can't vote corruption out of office. It has to be rooted out from outside. Even the cleanest politicians cannot operate from within a corrupt system.

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