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Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

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Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#31
post #3

The police in america generally have too much responsibility and consume too many of our resources. When you combine that with the privileged status that comes with law enforcement you get a real mess. The problem is, as in so many cases, fundamentally about power. Until police have less power (that is, less funding, fewer numbers, and a smaller scope of responsibilites), i fear these kinds of abuses are almost unavo…

> The police in america generally have too much responsibility and consume too many of our resources.

Part if this is because many other social services are cannibalized either due to drops in tax revenue, or in order to fund the constantly bloating police budgets.

Part of the "defund" process (I know, very poorly named!) is to take both responsibility off police shoulders and $$$ out of police budgets and put those dollars into social response.

A great example are mental wellness response to psychotic breaks among homeless. Rather than having police have to deal with hours of interaction (and police report paperwork), send in qualified health workers, i.e., those that have been trained for years to deal with this rather than a rookie cop with 6 months at the academy.

This would prevent cops from having to handle all kinds of other stuff, especially situations where they are not at all qualified to handle.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#32
post #22

Chicago has one of the highest murder rates in the U.S.[0], and is rising rapidly[1]; but, invariably the criticism is focused solely on the police. By the weight of coverage and outrage, one would think that Chicago faces no issues other than bad police. Yes they should have their body cams on. Why so little attention to the reality in Chicago that the police are facing? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Uni…

Rightly or wrongly, I guess people just feel they have a right to hold the police to a much higher standard than the criminals.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#33
post #4

With all the smart sensors available today it should be possible to start recording automatically. You unholster or unbuckle your weapon, camera goes live. It's become far too easy to say you forgot to do activate it in the heat of the moment. Even a 20yo car knows when a passenger is or isn't sitting in the seat.

This is not just possible, it's available today. It's a question of law, policy, and procedure.

It shouldn't surprise you that few people will choose monitoring beyond what's legally required.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#34
post #3

The police in america generally have too much responsibility and consume too many of our resources. When you combine that with the privileged status that comes with law enforcement you get a real mess. The problem is, as in so many cases, fundamentally about power. Until police have less power (that is, less funding, fewer numbers, and a smaller scope of responsibilites), i fear these kinds of abuses are almost unavo…

That power doesn't just disappear though. It'll be taken by a mob / gang / warlord, take your pick. Good luck demanding bodycams then!

I never suggested dismantling all systems of social cohesion and accountability. I said too much of the power that maintains social order is vested in a single place.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#35

> The cameras are relatively simple to operate. They constantly record everything in front of them, but only save 30 seconds of video at a time. To record an entire incident, the officer must double press the “event” button in the center of the camera. So non-compliance is the default. And compliance failure is as easy as an incorrect double-press that fails to start recording. Is there even any feedback that the dou…

Madness.

"woops - accidentally shot someone for no reason. Better press save on the body camera so I can be prosecuted/sacked!"

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#36
post #5

If we really want body cameras to work, there needs to be penalties for nonuse. For example lack of body camera removes qualified immunity protections for the officer(s) in question. My personal philosophy is that if called to be on a criminal jury, if the case relies on the officer's testimony and there is no camera, I will return a verdict of not guilty under the justification that the state has failed to prove its…

What we need is for them to have to carry personally paid malpractice insurance that is tied to their access to qualified immunity. And if their camera is off they lose their insurance policy. Then no more access to qualified immunity. Being police is a luxury not a right.

We don’t need to create a private insurance market for yet another part of American life. Other countries have real oversight bodies with teeth that build public trust. It’s important that justice is done in these cases of abuse, and it also needs to be seen to be done by the public, which builds trust in the institutions of state.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#37
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that one of the roles the FBI has?

As far as i know it's more or less handled by police forces themselves with predictable results.

I'm pretty sure trying to pass something like that would very quickly devolve into an argument about states rights. Probably rightly so, as even though oversight would be good, a Federal agency to do so might be problematic for many reasons.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#38
post #22

Chicago has one of the highest murder rates in the U.S.[0], and is rising rapidly[1]; but, invariably the criticism is focused solely on the police. By the weight of coverage and outrage, one would think that Chicago faces no issues other than bad police. Yes they should have their body cams on. Why so little attention to the reality in Chicago that the police are facing? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Uni…

If government wants to continue with drug prohibition then they should provide adequate policing. You can't have a cake and eat it too. You cannot blame the environment if this is what you created. If police cannot handle gangs, then why don't they lobby for drug legalisation? Or is it that they quite enjoy drug busts and undeclared cash on the side?

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#39

Is there a way to remove articles about the American police force from HN? Yes we know they’re bad/unethical and a problem for Americans. But is this really something that “gratifies one’s intellectual curiosity”? Isn’t it just flamebait now?

I agree. This is something that I would expect to see on reddit and not HN. I come here to get away from that noise.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#40
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America desperately needs a national internal affairs department with an entirely separate reporting line whose boss answers directly to the president (or at least state governors). They could purchase, maintain the body cameras, collect and handle the footage and be trusted. If Biden is looking to score some points this would be a good way.

Isn't that one of the roles the FBI has?

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