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The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

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Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#181

Post by smegger001 »

3np wrote: post #162
EB-Barrington wrote: post #16

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

The first thing that stands out to me is the choice of the word "gypsy". While many Roma are perfectly fine with it and even use it themselves, there are also many who find the word offensive and it has historically been used as a racial slur. Why not drop the word alltogether and fall back to the (at least to my understanding) neutral "roma"?

In all honestly many people in North America would not know who the Roma are but would know what group you are talking about when you say gypsy.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#182

Post by adventured »

petre wrote: post #82
umvi wrote: post #2

I have quite a few European friends on social media and they always seem perplexed whenever racial tensions flare up in the USA. Some even have openly asked "why do Americans find it so hard not to be racist? It's not that hard." I always respond by pointing out that the citizens of almost every country are naturally xenophobic and/or racist, just not necessarily against people of African descent. In the case of Euro…

In Naples they set their ghetto alight in 2008. In Eastern Europe their ghettos are bulldozed over whenever real estate interests take priority. In France they were deported to their home countries and their ghettos dismantled, although I've also heard of succesful integration stories on RFI. Once Eastern Europeans of other ethnicities are no longer willing to do migrant work, Western farms and slaughterhouses shall…

Western Europeans also like to pretend those things only happen elsewhere in Europe.

In Denmark they're committing a mass crime against humanity in a cultural cleansing against their Muslim minority, a vicious fascist action, and nobody cares to stop it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/world/europe/denmark-immi... (https://archive.is/Um7tE)

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/3/17525960/denmark-children...

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2020/01/15/denmarks-ghett...

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#183

Post by visarga »

pmoriarty wrote: post #145
nickpp wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the culture. They’d let the clean clothes get soiled black rather than wash and keep them clean. They’d rather eat stolen food from garbage rather than have to work for a restaurant meal. My mother was a primary school teacher in a Gipsy village and saw this first hand: small kids being encouraged to beg or steal instead of study by their own parents, abandoning school for the street lifestyle their family lived…

The same racist swill has been slung at nearly every minority and immigrant group. People of Asian descent were accused of being dirty, so were black people, so were Irish and Italian immigrants, Mexicans, Indians, and of course Native Americans. Their poverty was thrown in their face, as so was their lack of education (which was often mandated by law or other forms of discrimination). Now in the US Irish and Italian…

> The same racist swill has been slung at nearly every minority and immigrant group.

Here comes the generalisation. As many have said, you can only speak with authority if you had first hand experience.

I think Bulgarians and other European nations have a much more nuanced and grounded view on the Roma, based on direct experience, not reading news online. They know that not all Roma are the same, they all know exceptions, they realise how hard it is for them to break out of this situation, but at the same time how much of it is self inflicted.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#184

Post by drevil-v2 »

justnotworthit wrote: post #107
EB-Barrington wrote: post #16

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

You wrestled with a screaming guy trying to rip the camera out of your hands. A common travel cliche is "99% of people are friendly to you". That's a good thing, but I want to know what the 1% and 0.1% are likely do to you.

Mostly peaceful

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#185

Post by chimen »

EB-Barrington wrote: post #16

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

"if the public found out a Gypsy was working in the kitchen, most people would never dine at that restaurant" - I don't dig that, it's a lie.

I live just two hundred miles north in Romania and we have our own communities here - bigger even. The reason they don't get hired is because it is always a gamble doing that. They either steal or avoid work whenever possible. Most criminal gangs are by gypsies and most stealing, prostitution or begging in Europe is done by gypsies that left our country or from Bulgaria. Sadly, the entire Europe thinks of Romanians as thief's or beggars due to these people. Don't believe me? Here's a list with some videos them at (work):

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a03ln9aSSk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bqZYCVOgZI - https://youtu.be/jgv2DPUItTY?t=660 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GivpxPKzGm4 - https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1229612137060364 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bji47dgDLe4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhfuaGQhGr8 - ...hundreds more but you get the point

I know you can find videos about thief's on almost any nation out there but, you have to live in one of these countries to be able to talk on the subject. Here's a diva getting booed on the stage for trying to suggest we're discriminating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PymLiIBgQ9g

We are not racist towards them. Most of the educated and working gypsies have no problems in our country and I would never have issues hiring one - I've hired many designers or programmers but I never had one gypsy come for an interview.

I have some very good friends among them but, the vast majority, it is being raised without education or with the general idea that money should be made by whatever means necessary and the "BEST" examples in their communities are always the worst by any other standards other than their own.

As a conclusion, stop trying to point fingers at us for not doing what we can to integrate them because they DON'T want to be integrated. Period! They just don't.

Our countries do not have to climb. We can't drag them. When they left for France a few years ago you all captured them and sent them back with buses. Each Gypsy received 100 euro for going back to Romania - that's how you climb?

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#186

Post by thisrod »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #138
crispyporkbites wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s complicated. Ultimately it’s rude to refer to anyone by their skin colour, ethnicity or racial “group”. There are almost no situations where it’s appropriate.

In the US and certain upper-middle class echelons of other Western nations, maybe. Outside of that bubble, though, it ranges from neutral to positive to acknowledge a person's ethnicity.

Lol at the nominative determinism!

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#187

Post by petre »

p2detar wrote: post #114
petre wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Integration does work but not when you segregate a minority into ghettos. The Germans learned this and they stopped segregating refugees. Everywhere else the refugees end up in a 'camp'.

Uhm, I’m honestly curious, who do you think is doing the segregation of Roma?

Almost everyone, even themselves because of their culture: arranged teen weddings, not sending their kids to school, etc.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#188

Post by s9w »

dang wrote: post #174
s9w wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know Roma?

Flamebait will get you banned here, especially on racial/ethnic topics. We don't want the predictable and toxic material that leads to. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules, we'd be grateful. Note this one: " Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. " Most comments in this thread, even the ones with a negati…

Your assessment doesn't hold any water. It's a bunch of Americans virtue signalling about how good they are, talking about a problem they don't know. Hence my inquiry about that. Because as a European, I know that the things said in this thread are objectively not true.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#189

Post by 1024core »

chimen wrote: post #185
EB-Barrington wrote: post #16

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

"if the public found out a Gypsy was working in the kitchen, most people would never dine at that restaurant" - I don't dig that, it's a lie. I live just two hundred miles north in Romania and we have our own communities here - bigger even. The reason they don't get hired is because it is always a gamble doing that. They either steal or avoid work whenever possible. Most criminal gangs are by gypsies and most stealin…

> The reason they don't get hired is because it is always a gamble doing that.

So if you don't let them make an honest living, how the hell will they survive?? You claim they're all thieves and they don't want to be integrated, so you deny them any job prospects. And then you turn around and wonder why they steal!! How else will they feed their families or afford the basic necessities, man?

I'm not saying they're all honest people; but if the honest ones are not given a chance, they will have to resort to dishonest means.

It takes 2 to tango. You need both sides to make compromises.

This whole episode reminds me of how blacks were treated in America. Were it not for WW2, I wonder what the situation of blacks would be like in the USA.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#190

Post by pmoriarty »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #169
pmoriarty wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same racist swill has been slung at nearly every minority and immigrant group. People of Asian descent were accused of being dirty, so were black people, so were Irish and Italian immigrants, Mexicans, Indians, and of course Native Americans. Their poverty was thrown in their face, as so was their lack of education (which was often mandated by law or other forms of discrimination). Now in the US Irish and Italian…

> This kind of racist, bigoted, xenophobic libel leads straight to lynchings, pogroms, and gas chambers. Ehh...I think this is hyperbolic. It doesn't usually do that, it mostly just kind of simmers at the edges of society. And it's not "every minority and immigrant group", it's the poor ones.

"it's not "every minority and immigrant group", it's the poor ones."

Except Jews in Europe in the first half of the 20th Century (and in other places and times) were targeted for being poor and being rich.

When they were wealthy they were envied and accused of getting their money through immoral means, like usury and stealing it from their poorer neighbors.

When they were poor they were accused of being dirty, and poor because they were lazy.

And when they were neither rich nor poor, well then they were hated for just being Jews.

Even the ones who had fully assimilated weren't safe, because the racial laws meant that who your ancestors were mattered more than who you were.

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