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The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

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Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#81

Post by malkia »

ithkuil wrote: post #49
marton78 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that many Europeans are racist towards Roma and the other gypsy peoples. Much of what they say will be pure nonsense (e.g., they are stupid, not fit for work, etc), but other common statements you might hear also have some truth to them. For example, "they all steal" is of course a gross simplification, as many Roma are well integrated and live a regular life. However, if you are surrounded by a group of peop…

> Roma and the other gypsy peoples I thought gypsy was the exonym for the Roma(ni) people. Are there other "gypsy" peoples?

My "shallow" understanding is that "gypsy" seemed to be related to "egyptian", because of their looks. Others point to 13th-14th century ottoman invasion bringing troops from South Asia that were forced to move out from there, and used them as supporting troops later settling in Europe.

Hell if I know. I'm bulgarian, and you can imagine how this was portrayed to me, by parents, school, friends, etc. This article actually opened my eyes. Not that I didn't know how it looked, but how would it feel...

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#82

Post by petre »

umvi wrote: post #2

I have quite a few European friends on social media and they always seem perplexed whenever racial tensions flare up in the USA. Some even have openly asked "why do Americans find it so hard not to be racist? It's not that hard." I always respond by pointing out that the citizens of almost every country are naturally xenophobic and/or racist, just not necessarily against people of African descent. In the case of Euro…

In Naples they set their ghetto alight in 2008. In Eastern Europe their ghettos are bulldozed over whenever real estate interests take priority. In France they were deported to their home countries and their ghettos dismantled, although I've also heard of succesful integration stories on RFI.

Once Eastern Europeans of other ethnicities are no longer willing to do migrant work, Western farms and slaughterhouses shall run out of options and employ Roma migrant workers. This is already happening.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/can-europe-make-it/eyes-wid...

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#83

Post by malkia »

apecat wrote: post #10
umvi wrote: post #2

I have quite a few European friends on social media and they always seem perplexed whenever racial tensions flare up in the USA. Some even have openly asked "why do Americans find it so hard not to be racist? It's not that hard." I always respond by pointing out that the citizens of almost every country are naturally xenophobic and/or racist, just not necessarily against people of African descent. In the case of Euro…

I came here to write pretty much this. Here's a picture to clarify even further. https://imgur.com/m88rKwx

Spot on. Lots of my friends back from the country (Bulgaria), relatives, etc. We also did this atrocity - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revival_Process#1989_Ethnic_Cl...

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#84

Post by jrochkind1 »

umvi wrote: post #2

I have quite a few European friends on social media and they always seem perplexed whenever racial tensions flare up in the USA. Some even have openly asked "why do Americans find it so hard not to be racist? It's not that hard." I always respond by pointing out that the citizens of almost every country are naturally xenophobic and/or racist, just not necessarily against people of African descent. In the case of Euro…

It is definitely common in today's world, that alone is not enough to conclude the people are "naturally" xenophobic or racist, that it is "natural".

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#85

Post by jrochkind1 »

marton78 wrote: post #30
umvi wrote: post #2

I have quite a few European friends on social media and they always seem perplexed whenever racial tensions flare up in the USA. Some even have openly asked "why do Americans find it so hard not to be racist? It's not that hard." I always respond by pointing out that the citizens of almost every country are naturally xenophobic and/or racist, just not necessarily against people of African descent. In the case of Euro…

I agree that many Europeans are racist towards Roma and the other gypsy peoples. Much of what they say will be pure nonsense (e.g., they are stupid, not fit for work, etc), but other common statements you might hear also have some truth to them. For example, "they all steal" is of course a gross simplification, as many Roma are well integrated and live a regular life. However, if you are surrounded by a group of peop…

Came here expecting to find this, because THIS is in fact what happens in every online discussion of Roma I see, not some other "pure nonsense", but just this.

In America, if people say "The things people say about Black people are a gross simplification HOWEVER", it's usually something really racist that's about to follow. Say, "Sure many Black people are fine, but if you find yourself surrounded by Black people in the Inner City, you are in danger." I mean, I dunno.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#86

Post by maest »

marton78 wrote: post #30
umvi wrote: post #2

I have quite a few European friends on social media and they always seem perplexed whenever racial tensions flare up in the USA. Some even have openly asked "why do Americans find it so hard not to be racist? It's not that hard." I always respond by pointing out that the citizens of almost every country are naturally xenophobic and/or racist, just not necessarily against people of African descent. In the case of Euro…

I agree that many Europeans are racist towards Roma and the other gypsy peoples. Much of what they say will be pure nonsense (e.g., they are stupid, not fit for work, etc), but other common statements you might hear also have some truth to them. For example, "they all steal" is of course a gross simplification, as many Roma are well integrated and live a regular life. However, if you are surrounded by a group of peop…

> a bit racist

It's more than a bit. It's institutionalised and pervasive racism.

One big difference from the US is that Eastern-Europeans don't even acknowledge there is any racism against gypsies so it's not even part of the public discourse. Much like how fish don't realise they're surrounded by water, so do Eastern Europeans not acknowledge that they live in a racist society. The tensions flaring up in the US are partly caused by the fact that the opressed category is trying to get equal footing in society. If gypsies were to start talking about how they should be treated equally, you can bet there would be a backlash from a big part of society.

For comparison, look at how the US treated race relations 100 years ago. (To be clear, I'm not saying Eastern-European countries are backwards or more primitive just because they can be compared to the US in the past; it's just a helpful way to understand the context.)

Source: I'm originally from an Eastern European country and only realised the racism in Eastern Europe once I lived abroad for multiple years and drew parallels with the highly mediatised US racial tensions.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#87

Post by dvh »

EB-Barrington wrote: post #16

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

How does it compare to Luník IX?

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#88

Post by malkia »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #67
mrtksn wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was about race, how do you explain the roma situation in Turkey? It's the same people but drastically different engagement in the public life. The gangs, the trash, the dirt, the kids out of school - all real things as photographed and descrbed by the author of the article. The more likely explanation is that the Bulgarians screwed up with the policy and the Turks got something right.

> The more likely explanation is that the Bulgarians screwed up with the policy and the Turks got something right. You're insinuating that Bulgaria enacted policies that forced Roma into a life of crime. You're also insinuating that all Europe enacted policies that forced Roma in Europe into crime since they behave likewise everywhere in Europe this specific group of gypsies goes which is a preposterous assertion. Th…

It did actually (Bulgarian here). During communist regime, roma (gypsies) were segregated - taught in different schools, lived in different areas. When the communist regime fell, it was accepted that's how it is, and the situation did not improve. Just my view on the matter.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#89

Post by crispyporkbites »

Causality1 wrote: post #41
EB-Barrington wrote: post #16

Post author here. Stolipinovo is one of several European Roma communities that I have visited over the years (several times now), and it's the largest that I'm aware of. The photos in the post are representative and true of how the area actually is, and I'm happy to answer any questions (forewarning, I'm not an expert). If I were to emphasize any one take-away - it's the friendliness I experienced from the locals. So…

You use the word "gypsy" a lot. The Roma I've met consider it very offensive, almost n-word level offensive. Is that not the case in Europe?

It’s complicated. Ultimately it’s rude to refer to anyone by their skin colour, ethnicity or racial “group”. There are almost no situations where it’s appropriate.

Re: The Largest Gypsy Ghetto in Europe – Stolipinovo, Bulgaria (2016)

#90

Post by malkia »

pmoriarty wrote: post #9

This reminds me of the so-called City of the Dead [1] in Cairo. It's an ancient cemetery which has basically turned in to a giant slum, with poverty-stricken people living among the ancient tombs. There are a number of interesting videos on youtube about it, such as [2], [3], and [4], but it's the first of these that I found most fascinating, because not only did it show and talk about the City of the Dead , it also…

The word "gypsy" seems to have roots in people from "Egypt" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people#Other_designatio... (Certainly don't want anyone from Egypt to feel offended, just pointing out the root of a word)
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