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Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

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Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#671

Post by calinet6 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #658
calinet6 wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both! We all need to understand each other better, and off of the internet.

What is there to understand when two people’s assumptions are different and in conflict with each other? For example, someone wanting others to act according to their religion. I spent decades with my parents, but there’s nothing to “understand”. They speak a different language (even though we have the ability to use the same words) and live in a different world than me.

I don't think it needs to be everyone.

If we can think about 5% of the population who simply have different life situations and backgrounds having a better appreciation for why they think what they do, and those 5% become less extreme and more understanding of compromising for the benefit of others, then you've just changed society completely.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#672

Post by dane-pgp »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #639
simmons wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm about as close to a free-speech absolutist as there is, and it's very frustrating that the market for these platforms seems to be settling into ruts where we have to choose between the hyper-conformity of highly managed platforms and the dumpster fires of the unmanaged platforms. I think the feedback loop you describe is a big part of it. I also wonder if we're experiencing a decline in education and critical thi…

There can, I’m surprised no one has implemented this: Start everyone off with a maximum influence credit of say 10 people, like in your local neighborhood. As you contribute to thoughtful discussion, as determined by the diversity and ratio of up/down arrows, your maximum influence credit grows as a function of your geography.

Taking this idea further, maybe part of the problem is that platforms reduce the quality metric for posts down to effectively a single dimension: upvotes / likes / thumbs up.

What if there were separate dimensions for: Factually accurate, Morally agreeable, and Polite?

A machine learning algorithm could quickly work out which groups of users have different ideological positions, and which topics are likely to devolve into flame wars, so it could require that users have a minimum politeness score to be able to participate in a debate.

It could also, as you say, check for echo chambers forming and incentivise people with differing opinions to enter a discussion to balance it out.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#674

Post by confidantlake »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #420
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #255

We are censored every day. A newspaper editor censors their writers, your boss censors your reports, your friends censor your bar room bullshit by calling you out on it, your spouse tells you you will not argue with your brother in law again. But this is all implicit censoring - adhering to social norms through social signals (a raised eye brow, being told to buy your round and shut up) The thing is computers do not…

Just to expand a little - If you are the moderator and both sides think you are biased, you are probably in the right zone. The problem is do we as society, really want a handful of private companies deciding what the rules are - deciding for example if a Philipino politician can use FAANG to talk to his electorate (because the electorate is all on facebook, say de facto facebook are garejeeping this) Society does no…

So if those that think the world is round and those who think it is flat both think the moderator is biased he must be doing something right? Both sides are wrong because technically the earth isn't exactly flat? What about climate change deniers vs climate scientists?

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#675

Post by tshaddox »

smallnamespace wrote: post #521
dustinmoris wrote: post #118

In mid October I deleted almost all my tweets and likes (but Twitter being so shit they are still showing my likes except it’s not liked anymore lol) and have not been tweeting anything anymore. I found Twitter too toxic, it made me angry with people for no reason, so I deleted all my tweets and the app. No more notifications, no more “just checking Twitter quickly”. I now go to Twitter like once a day just to have a…

> Everyone is so negative, pessimistic, judgemental, sarcastic in tone, confrontational, and self righteous. People are posting so much shit it’s unbelievable how much time they waste of their lives there. One huge thread after another, people crying for attention. > I was part of the problem too. Not to be overly personal here, but doesn't this post veer close to describing itself?

Very close? That’s precisely what this post is!

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#676

Post by tshaddox »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #518
elorant wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it, the problem with social media is that you surround yourself with like-minded people, which diminishes your tolerance to different views. People become self righteous and can't take criticism lightly. Compare this to how things were 15 years ago, or how they are in here, where everyone and their dog can challenge your opinion. You become more open minded long term, and can handle criticism in a more…

I take the contrarian viewpoint here. I think the division is good. There's no reason people in the valley should have to live by the cultural rules of the people in Jackson Mississippi or vice versa. That's exactly what happens right now under our political system. The US has at least two distinct cultures and the more they grow to despise one another the sooner we can have an amicable divorce and allow each group t…

Sounds nice, but obviously that “amicable divorce” is extremely difficult to imagine.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#677

Post by calinet6 »

ulzeraj wrote: post #604
leppr wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's trying to explicit and bring grandparent's ideas to their logical conclusion. I dislike slippery slope-type arguments, but I fail to see how one can coherently agree with their comment and not mine.

I appreciate the sarcasm. Some responses in this thread are giving me a bad vibe. This site is full of users thinking they can somewhat engineer society towards what they think its a proper state and that aligns very well with the currant behavior of big social media corporations. I wonder when did we tech people deviated so much towards being aspiring tyrants...

It makes more sense when you think about the fact that society is already engineered to be in some state, and the power of social media companies appears to be influencing that in the wrong direction.

If you're okay with putting society to the whims of its current incentives and the corporations' addictive advertising-optimized technology, you're free to your opinion, but that seems even more dystopian to me than attempting to do better.

At the very least I think arguing for sustaining the current complex designed incentivized structured state of society is morally equal to arguing for some different state.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#678

Post by whimsicalism »

calinet6 wrote: post #666
whimsicalism wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still vote Democrat, but it is the growth of exactly this attitude that you've identified that is causing me to move increasingly away from considering myself a "Democrat". I can't see how people fail to notice the snobbish elitism underlying "we need to manage the discourse so that people's behavior is under control." It's amazing how cyclical this sort of stuff is. Plato's Republic was enmeshed with a similar log…

I do not think we need to manage speech or control discourse whatsoever. If you think that's the idea here, you're not thinking deep enough about the nature of the systems that are problematic right now. We've designed communication systems that are optimized for instant gratification, engagement, getting the dopamine hit of seeing things you agree with or angry at, and rapidly moving to the next. That's not speech,…

Anyone who has studied the history of philosophy would know that the arguments you are making are classics among defenders of censorship: limiting speech for the "sake of speech" (over attention-seeking), "incentivize the context", "reinforce our humanity." None of these exempt you from managing speech, you're just trying to launder your values to a higher level - like what "good speech" is or whether a given speech-act appropriately "reinforces our own humanity." Tune the knobs of the social media platform until it starts producing speech I am more comfortable with.

Indeed much of JS Mill's On Liberty (1859) was dedicated to responding to these and others.

> we need to change our systems to incentivize human context around that speech

Who is the "we" who "should" do so? How does that "we" coordinate so that everyone building these systems builds them in the same way?

And why should these systems be optimized for whatever extrinsic goal you like better than "attention seeking"? That is managing speech.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#679

Post by nkrisc »

timpattinson wrote: post #356
afrojack123 wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and Twitter is FAKE NEWS. It is a known STATED LAW that electorates decide the president. This system was designed by Hamilton to prevent a popular but unfit candidate from becoming president. When somebody stated this on Twitter, Twitter gave this is information may not be correct warning. It is the LAW. Twitter fact checked the law. If Twitter was willing to mind its own business, Parler wouldn't exist.

if the system was designed to prevent a popular but unfit candiate from becoming president, it's been broken since 2016.

The winning candidate in 2016 wasn't even popular: he lost the popular vote.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#680

Post by specialist »

Popular mediums are fads. Magazines, genres of music, social networks, chat applications, whatever.

Far more interesting questions:

Why are Facebook and Twitter more durable than the historical average?

Where are they in their lifecycle? How much time do they have left?

What are the lessons learned by their outsized success?

My personal hot take (prediction market bets):

Facebook (et al) has plateaued.

Twitter will tank when Trump leaves and takes his following with him.

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