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Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

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Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#651

Post by pessimizer »

orblivion wrote: post #554
LatteLazy wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cato.org/blog/twitter-alternative-they-can-keep-... To be clear, it makes sense to ban fake accounts proporting to be well known people and people breaking the law. Banning anyone with views you dislike and anyone paroding conservatives is where it gets censourous.

One possible take is that there's a fundamental difference between banning opinions and banning presentation. You could ban spam, impersonations, doxxing, all harassment and insults, posting fecal matter, porn, racial and other epithets, and so forth, but still be able to discuss the related crazy ideas (holocaust denial, child porn legalization, etc). I think this preserves the most important part of free speech.

If you let me ban enough classes of words and images, I can ban ideas. If nothing else, I can ban people talking about those ideas for their awkward attempts to get around the bans on words.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#652

Post by mensetmanusman »

tomjen3 wrote: post #594
mensetmanusman wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historians actually point to Vietnam as the point when the average American gave up on their government. Once that happened, the government gave up on the average American, allowed middle class jobs to disappear, and spent more time joining global virtue signaling parties and subsidizing bombs in Yemen than fixing lead pipes in cities.

Why is there some conspiracy for the US government to allow good jobs to leave? They didn't have to do anything, all that happened was that the rest of the world had rebuilt their bombed out factories and gotten their economy on track. Once the oil crises hit, that was that.

The government allowed companies to lower environmental and worker safety standards by outsourcing overseas without including tariffs as a function of said standards.

See, the things we buy wouldn’t be so cheap if we didn’t let some companies in china dump toxic waste for free.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#653

Post by sundarurfriend »

iooi wrote: post #633
sundarurfriend wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relevant parts (reply to add if I left anything out): > Trolls hoping to test the boundaries of Parler’s commitment to free speech and get a rise out of its users began, often vulgarly, impersonating prominent Trump supporters and conservative publications. > Parler responded by banning the impersonating accounts, including some inoffensive parodies. (The linked article seems to have some bias towards supporting Parl…

Obviously the cato institute would be biased in favor of Parler.

Not to me - where it says "random reader" in my comment above, replace that with "clueless outsider".

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#654

Post by calinet6 »

stickyricky wrote: post #510
calinet6 wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see it as the opposite: this may be how a technical network is supposed to work, but it's not how a society is supposed to work. The internet has created the ability for any given subculture to discover instant validation and reinforce their beliefs into a tribe, which further solidifies and extremifies those beliefs. It's a psychological power almost equivalent to a nuclear reaction: beliefs and ideas that might h…

> The internet has created the ability for any given subculture to discover instant validation and reinforce their beliefs into a tribe, which further solidifies and extremifies those beliefs. I don't believe this is true. I remember "Ye Olde Days" (TM) of the Internet. You went to an independent forum or mailing list that supported your interest (video games, music, politics) and then you argued with everyone in you…

You're right. The way we design our social platforms has a gigantic impact on how people see each other, and talk to each other, and the impact that has on us.

Perhaps the problem isn't the self-reinforcement, but rather the platforms being designed more on instantaneous engagement and addiction rather than talking and human-level discussion.

We've devolved internet discourse into very simplistic, unintelligent, instant gratification that's friendly to advertising and monetization.

That makes a lot more sense, and why I think it's so important to think of this problem as a much bigger systemic ecosystem. The design of a platform or a system impacts how people behave; the ones we have now have just the right mix of characteristics to cause this sort of insular tribalism.

We can choose to design different ones.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#655

Post by LatteLazy »

concordDance wrote: post #589
LatteLazy wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy enough with banning things you have to ban legally and banning pointless comments. But banning anyone supporting antifa is a pretty clear breach. The parody ban (especially the selective application) is another clear breach of free speech. I'd be content enough if they were upfront and said this is a place for "Conservative opinions only" rather than "free speech". I'd even agree that's their right and that…

> But banning anyone supporting antifa is a pretty clear breach Would you be in favour of banning people supporting ISIS, child molestors or the Nazis? Because from a conservative perspective, the rationales of one might apply to the other and so many nominally free speech environments ban support for those groups.

You're quite right.

If someone is running a free speech platform, people should be able to advocate for all those things. Don't mistake me for a hypocrite who decrys censorship only of things I don't want censored. I'm not. People should actively discuss and advocate for positions they hold no matter the position. That's free speech. There are few limits (openly inciting violence, plotting crimes1, copyright etc)

If a platform or audience doesn't like that, they can drop free speech and become a safe space. That's their business. But they shouldn't censor speech and claim they are for free speech. That seems to be what is happening here.

Fyi, I haven't kept up on antifa or the events around them. But my position is that looting is wrong. At the same time, I'm sure they are right about at least something. That's a pretty safe, reasonable position right? Not on Parler. On Parlar that position is banned. And by banning my comment, you are banned from correcting me. How is that a positive for you or me or any other reasonable person? It only seems a positive for those who are too weak to bear hearing such simple positions. And even they are trading wisdom in the long term for comfort in the short...

Sorry. I feel quite strongly about censorship. It's a foolish idea we should have dropped back when we still had Kings and lived in mud huts.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#656

Post by _opc6 »

thinkingemote wrote: post #618
atomi wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had wars over this. Bigotry lost. Don't destroy the world over a failed ideology.

Bigotry is the failure to understand the other. It's literally in the definition! To understand the other is to win against bigotry. Don't destroy the world with bigotry disguised as righteousness. Most peace processes start with the humanising of the other and the identification of shared commonalities. Bigotry is against peace and coexistence. To advocate for not understanding people is to destroy the world. I get…

I understand you wish things to be one way.

In my opinion, bigotry in mainstream public discourse is never going to happen. It's a feature of capitalism and why you won't see gas vans as long as we remain a capitalist society.

But don't let me dissuade you from advocating for your beliefs.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#657

Post by fullshark »

roland35 wrote: post #616
dustinmoris wrote: post #118

In mid October I deleted almost all my tweets and likes (but Twitter being so shit they are still showing my likes except it’s not liked anymore lol) and have not been tweeting anything anymore. I found Twitter too toxic, it made me angry with people for no reason, so I deleted all my tweets and the app. No more notifications, no more “just checking Twitter quickly”. I now go to Twitter like once a day just to have a…

I look at twitter discussions and it honestly like like a lot of people are just shouting past each other. I don't think anyone is out to win hearts and minds out there...

They are shouting past each other, because they aren't talking to each other, they are talking for a hypothetical audience, cheering them on.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#658

Post by lotsofpulp »

calinet6 wrote: post #624
npsimons wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is a little bit less likely that you dislike heartland America when you spent a year working with Fred the Farmboy before you headed to Princeton. I find it interesting you choose this as an example, and not rather say that "Fred the Farmboy" might actually see those "librul coastal elites" or "ivory tower intellectuals" as people like himself. The latter are terms I've actually seen used. But on the topic of a…

Both! We all need to understand each other better, and off of the internet.

What is there to understand when two people’s assumptions are different and in conflict with each other?

For example, someone wanting others to act according to their religion.

I spent decades with my parents, but there’s nothing to “understand”. They speak a different language (even though we have the ability to use the same words) and live in a different world than me.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#659

Post by whatever_dude »

dustinmoris wrote: post #118

In mid October I deleted almost all my tweets and likes (but Twitter being so shit they are still showing my likes except it’s not liked anymore lol) and have not been tweeting anything anymore. I found Twitter too toxic, it made me angry with people for no reason, so I deleted all my tweets and the app. No more notifications, no more “just checking Twitter quickly”. I now go to Twitter like once a day just to have a…

Twitter is a hellfire, but it still has value if well controlled. I use a third-party client and added dozens of muted word (eg anything political or covid related) and it's amazing; it's a bit of a escape even. Once I realized I don't have any obligation to mind the Latest Piece of Shitty News 24/7, I'm a much better online social media user.

I still read the news every day (Feedly) and know what's going on, but it's compartmentalized.

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