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Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

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Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#141

Post by refurb »

ardy42 wrote: post #57
dannyw wrote: post #19

1. Tech platforms are uncomfortable with certain viewpoints expressed on their platforms and seek to limit these viewpoints. 2. Instead of changing people’s minds (isn’t the evidence overwhelmingly conclusive that people rarely change political viewpoints?), people flock to “community bubbles” like Parler, TheDonald, etc where they feel welcome. 3. This marginalisation leads to increasing extremism; going from the li…

> 1. Tech platforms are uncomfortable with certain viewpoints expressed on their platforms and seek to limit these viewpoints. For the most part, those "viewpoints" are verifiable falsehoods, conspiracy theories, and other types of disinformation and misinformation. For instance, the recent migrations to Parler are chiefly people who want to deny the legitimate US presidential election result and spread false claims…

For the most part, those "viewpoints" are verifiable falsehoods, conspiracy theories, and other types of disinformation and misinformation.

"For the most part"

But incredibly, disinformation and misinformation like "the Hunter Biden story is a Russian plot" doesn't get censored, despite absolutely no proof and in fact, evidence to the contrary.

Funny that is.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#143

Post by adjkant »

robswc wrote: post #109
renewiltord wrote: post #70

No one wants to spend time on the Internet listening to a bunch of randos talking about how the Jews are secretly lizard people manipulating the elections except other such crackpots. These platforms are lightning rods. Let these people go there and convince each other of their fringe conspiracy theories. Freedom of association and all that. If they will stop polluting normal places with their crackpottery we're all…

To be fair, I've largely stopped using twitter due to the incessant politics, pretty much what you described above but just in a different flavor. Ironically manipulating elections was one of those "incessant" topics, however it was all coming from a completely different crowd then (around when I left). I also remember seeing a ton of racism against whites and (ironically) anti-semitic comments and conspiracies that…

> pretty much what you described above but just in a different flavor

I'd love to see what part of twitter would be merely a different flavor to "Jews are secretly lizard people manipulating the elections". There's an important difference between the mere existence of an echo chamber and the contents of the chamber. Let's not "both sides" this when comparing to anti-semitism.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#144

Post by refurb »

Siira wrote: post #116
ardy42 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Tech platforms are uncomfortable with certain viewpoints expressed on their platforms and seek to limit these viewpoints. For the most part, those "viewpoints" are verifiable falsehoods, conspiracy theories, and other types of disinformation and misinformation. For instance, the recent migrations to Parler are chiefly people who want to deny the legitimate US presidential election result and spread false claims…

How are they “verifiable” falsehoods? E.g., conspiracy theories are famous for being almost always unfalsifiable. These views usually are a mix of low prior hypotheses, politically incorrect semi-truths, marketing propaganda (with few empirical assertions), and lies.

"The NSA is secretly monitoring all communications on the internet"

That would have easily been labeled misinformation and disinformation 10 years ago.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#145

Post by cm2187 »

least wrote: post #33

When "free speech" is the primary selling point of a social media website, it tends to only attract people who feel slighted by the platform they're migrating from. Unfortunately this has the opposite effect of Parler's stated goal of being "the world's town square" since it simply isn't attractive to people with opposing views of those who did move. I think free speech is important and I think that social media plat…

Agree, we will likely end up with right leaning town square and left leaning town square. And because every company seems to think they need to pick a side on political topics, it may extend beyond speech platforms. For instance I wouldn't be surprised if at one point conservative leaning viewers would migrate away from the likes of netflix for been fed up of being preached woke catechism in every TV show. And perhaps calling your customers sexists and bigots isn't the best advertising strategy for shaving products. Etc.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#146

Post by Grustaf »

sverhagen wrote: post #125
Grustaf wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a serious question?

There's plenty of opinion out there that the leadership of these companies themselves are right leaning, even if the average silicon valley employee isn't. I don't know. But maybe they are also just hoping to be neutral. Maybe it's good business to not alienate half of your marketplace. Maybe there's some aspect of genuine principle there. If you believe that can't exist, how is it possible that right leaning state g…

Except for Peter Thiel and possibly Musk, what silicon valley big-shot is not (very) explicitly left-wing?

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#147

Post by pjc50 »

refurb wrote: post #134
renewiltord wrote: post #70

No one wants to spend time on the Internet listening to a bunch of randos talking about how the Jews are secretly lizard people manipulating the elections except other such crackpots. These platforms are lightning rods. Let these people go there and convince each other of their fringe conspiracy theories. Freedom of association and all that. If they will stop polluting normal places with their crackpottery we're all…

Well that's a charitable way to talk about the 70M American who voted Republican. This is always a good rule - when your theory is that half of the population are "crack pots", the issue might be you, not them.

Uncharitable speech is free speech.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#148

Post by berkes »

wernercd wrote: post #119
ardy42 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what? People should be free to discuss stupid and wrong ideas. And they are, but if they want to do it on Twitter, Twitter gets to have its say as well. However, the conspiracy theorists don't seem to like it when Twitter exercises its rights by labeling their tweets, like in this case. As for why this matters, people who want to live in functioning democracies have a strong interest in making sure the truth pre…

"Twitter gets to have it's say" Free speech is more than just a law... it's an idea and a philosophy. Part of making sure "truth prevails" is having open discourse about topics. That involves people with "Wrong" ideas the ability to talk. When platforms like Facebook and Twitter become the arbiter of what's "right"? Then people will leave those platforms because lawfully they have the "right" to censor their platform…

What place does someone with the delusion that '2+2=7' have in 'prevailing the Truth'. Such a person only frustrates that search for truth. They don't make the outcome faster, easier or more true, do they?

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#149

Post by forest_dweller »

renewiltord wrote: post #70

No one wants to spend time on the Internet listening to a bunch of randos talking about how the Jews are secretly lizard people manipulating the elections except other such crackpots. These platforms are lightning rods. Let these people go there and convince each other of their fringe conspiracy theories. Freedom of association and all that. If they will stop polluting normal places with their crackpottery we're all…

> No one wants to spend time on the Internet listening to a bunch of randos talking about how the Jews are secretly lizard people manipulating the elections except other such crackpots.

I don't think that is representative of users of Parler. I would agree with you if you said Gab.

This may surprise you but the vast vast majority people are joking about the likes of the lizard people. It is a bit of fun because of how ridiculous the idea is.

> Let these people go there and convince each other of their fringe conspiracy theories. Freedom of association and all that. If they will stop polluting normal places with their crackpottery we're all better off.

From "Anatomy of the State" by Murray Rothbard pages 27 and 28:

> It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any “conspiracy theory of history;” for a search for “conspiracies” means a search for motives and an attribution of responsibility for historical misdeeds. If, however, any tyranny imposed by the State, or venality, or aggressive war, was caused not by the State rulers but by mysterious and arcane “social forces,” or by the imperfect state of the world or, if in some way, everyone was responsible (“We Are All Murderers,” proclaims one slogan), then there is no point to the people becoming indignant or rising up against such misdeeds. Furthermore, an attack on “conspiracy theories” means that the subjects will become more gullible in believing the “general welfare” reasons that are always put forth by the State for engaging in any of its des-potic actions. A “conspiracy theory” can unsettle the system by causing the public to doubt the State’s ideological propaganda.

When large news organisations that are owned by the rich or the state are telling you that they need to "stop mis-information and conspiracy theories" on platforms where anyone can post anything that means some of those theories might not be as soo fringe as you like to make out.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#150

Post by Hermel »

ardy42 wrote: post #72
Hermel wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? People should be free to discuss stupid and wrong ideas. Btw: I think conspiracy theories are good indicators for what certain people want to believe. I personally don't want to be disconnected from these indicators.

> So what? People should be free to discuss stupid and wrong ideas. And they are, but if they want to do it on Twitter, Twitter gets to have its say as well. However, the conspiracy theorists don't seem to like it when Twitter exercises its rights by labeling their tweets, like in this case. As for why this matters, people who want to live in functioning democracies have a strong interest in making sure the truth pre…

> And they are, but if they want to do it on Twitter, Twitter gets to have its say as well.

And that's why they are exercising their right to move away from Twitter.

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