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Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

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Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#241

Post by ignoramous »

as-j wrote: post #216
izacus wrote: post #15

> Under active use, Android devices transfer about 11.6MB of data to Google servers daily, or 350MB per month, it's claimed, which is about half the amount transferred by an iPhone. Interesting, so 350MB of data per month is abuse, iPhones 175MB per month isn't. I guess Google now has to half their data use for it to be at parity with Apple and we're all fine?

Before everyone grabs their pitch forks....as someone who does telemetry tracking devices, 350megs/mo is pretty easy to do and send nearly 0 data, if you do it wrong....let me explain: TLS connection setup is ~10k so if do an 1 HTTPS call/telemetry that's 48 calls home/hour. (11,600/10k = 1,160 https connections/day. There's 1440 minutes/day) Of basically calling home every minute and sending not much. Ok calling hom…

That makes me wonder if its Google Play Services (mandatorily preloaded into every Android device) that connects frequently / keeps a connection idle to support things like Push Notifications?

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#242

Post by Yetanfou »

francis-io wrote: post #31
Yetanfou wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't rely on vendors to help you out of this conundrum, instead use what you have at your disposal to escape the duopoly. Get a supported Android device - there are hundreds of those by now - and install an AOSP-derived distribution like LineageOS. Leave out the Google bits, i.e. no 'gapps', no Google account, no nothing. If you need 'apps' which rely on the Google Services Framework use microG [1] but be aware of t…

Can this approach still use google apps when needed? I need to use certain things like 2FA apps used by my employer. I want the freedom to be able to quickly install X app if needed.

You often can, give it a try. You can install the needed Google app and see if it works. You can use Termux Widget [1] to add enable/disable links for apps so you can keep them around in a disabled state, to be enabled and disabled on demand. Create a directory named .shortcuts in your Termux home directory, any script placed there will be available through the Termux widget. Take Google Maps, an often demanded but extremely intrusive app. If you occasionally want to use it you can add the following scripts to enable and disable it:

googlemaps-enable:

   #!/data/data/com.termux/files/usr/bin/sh
   
   exec sudo pm enable com.google.android.apps.maps
   exit 0
googlemaps-disable:

   #!/data/data/com.termux/files/usr/bin/sh
   
   exec sudo pm disable com.google.android.apps.maps
   exit 0
Yes, you need root (and sudo) to do this.

[1] https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Termux:Widget

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#243

Post by 411111111111111 »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #150
chrisseaton wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With the median world income being $30/month, I doubt so ! First of all, this isn't even true - it's around $240/month. https://news.gallup.com/poll/166211/worldwide-median-househo... Second, people living in those countries aren't buying US data plans at US prices are they? You don't live in the Congo but shop for your data plan at a California strip-mall, do you?

Oh, right, I confused median with '1 dollar per day' extreme poverty line : https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty Which should be around 5% these days. > Second, people living in those countries aren't buying US data plans at US prices are they? You don't live in the Congo but shop for your data plan at a California strip-mall, do you? Ok, so what are these prices ? https://www.cellularabroad.com/packages-congo.…

I pay 19.99 € for 10gb and unlimited G3 after (Germany). It varies wildly between countries.

I know some eastern nations that have 50gb G4 for 10-15€, which is about as much as you'd pay for 1 meal in a pretty cheap restaurant.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#244

Post by mdpm »

rodgerd wrote: post #228
mdpm wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been trying to execute on this approach, as I'm very interested in checking out of the tracking-by-default ecosystems. We're using some Xiaomi devices we purchased, and I'm currently seething. I can't root without 'unlocking', which is a process that requires me to activate a Mi Account, which then requires my email and a SIM (?!), and 'find my device' (location) to even allow installation of apps via USB. To un…

Yeah, Xiaomi seems like a terrible starting point if you're worried about surveillance.

I had the phones prior to the attempt (they're my previous handsets). Not wanting to buy fresh phones just to check feasibility. Sadly the choice just seems to be which nation-state-finance-intelligence cluster you want to feed your data to.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#245

Post by lostdog »

wegs wrote: post #97
skizm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawyers just bring up class action lawsuits to skim money off the payout. The individual payouts are usually so small barely anyone goes through the hassle of claiming them. The one positive is, at least it’s a small slap on the wrist for bad corporate behavior, but I doubt any company actually will change their behavior because of it.

No, companies do change behavior. The public interest argument is: 1) Companies can make a lot of money skimming $1 each off of 100 million people. 2) Federal enforcement agencies don't have time or energy for that. We can outsource that to private firms 3) Private law firms can file class action suits, and companies are forced into agreements where they pay damages AND often need to change behavior It kinda sorta wo…

But the payout to consumers should never be in coupons or discounts. Always cash.

(Or conversely, the payout to the lawyers should be the same form as the payout to consumers. Good luck spending $100 million Wells Fargo Free Checking Account buckz).

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#246

Post by ommz »

mdpm wrote: post #154
smt88 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about LineageOS with a non-Google app store?

I've been trying to execute on this approach, as I'm very interested in checking out of the tracking-by-default ecosystems. We're using some Xiaomi devices we purchased, and I'm currently seething. I can't root without 'unlocking', which is a process that requires me to activate a Mi Account, which then requires my email and a SIM (?!), and 'find my device' (location) to even allow installation of apps via USB. To un…

Xiaomi phones and their apps especially the freaking weather app are routine offenders on my firewall. I use NoRoot Firewall (beta version), that runs a local VPN, to whitelist connections and man, it's horrifying. I've enabled the "Always on VPN" and "Block connections without VPN" settings (Android 10) so NOTHING goes out unless through the firewall

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#247

Post by ignoramous »

wegs wrote: post #134
Retric wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not saying 175MB per month is ok, that could also be problematic. It’s saying 350MB per month is clearly excessive as demonstrated by a company using half that.

350MB is clearly excessive, and so is 175MB. Neither helps make a point about the other, though. It's about what's transferred, and about permission. What I want now is an open source Android device where I have controls. The #1 things I want to control is app permissions. I should be able to shut them down. If an app "needs" my location, it should get a random spot in the world. If it "needs" my contacts, it should…

> #1 things I want to control is app permissions.

Android AppManager [0] (if you're willing to spend the time configuring it via the command line) might help here.

> If an app "needs" my location, it should get a random spot in the world. If it "needs" my contacts, it should get an empty list.

Some Chinese OEMs do have these features. I know ColorOS (Oppo and Realme) does.

> If an app "needs" my network, it should see that it's offline.

Android 11 natively exposes ability to firewall apps individually. All major Chinese OEMs (Xiaomi, Oppo, Realme, OnePlus, Vivo) have supported this for a long time.

> The #2 thing I want to control is data going out.

There are two or three no-root firewall solutions on the PlayStore (disclaimer: I built one, too).

> #3 is having security updates forever, rather than sudden EOL with no notice.

Legacy devices may have other problems than what an Android distribution can address: https://grapheneos.org/faq#legacy-devices

[0] https://github.com/MuntashirAkon/AppManager

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#248

Post by cle »

dogma1138 wrote: post #148
Silhouette wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually I'm a sceptic about Linux taking over the world, but this is actually the one situation where I could believe substantial progress might be made. If someone developed a slick UI for the basic phone functionality and a genuinely open Linux-based platform, provided compatibility with the major APIs needed to write Android apps so portability was easy, and maybe even funded the whole thing using an app store tha…

At that point what’s the difference between this and Android, unlock your bootloader, download AOSP and hack away...

For me a big difference would be not sending my data to Google. Even Lineage OS still sends a bunch of data to Google all the time. If you’re not careful it sends location data, DNS queries, etc.

I want a mobile OS that gives me complete control over my personal data.

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#249

Post by dayjobpork »

asutekku wrote: post #147
PersonalOps wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telemetry is not something the device needs to function either. It's a "value add" in the best possible light, security breach in the worst.

Telemetry at least is useful for the developers to see how people use their software/devices/whatever.

Why should a user pay for something that is useful for a multi billion dollar multinational ad company?

Re: Google sued: Idle Android eats mobile data to send telemetry and preload ads

#250

Post by ignoramous »

Gabrielfair wrote: post #169
wegs wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

350MB is clearly excessive, and so is 175MB. Neither helps make a point about the other, though. It's about what's transferred, and about permission. What I want now is an open source Android device where I have controls. The #1 things I want to control is app permissions. I should be able to shut them down. If an app "needs" my location, it should get a random spot in the world. If it "needs" my contacts, it should…

I use glasswire which kinda some some of this. In addition to your list I would also be interested in setting up my homelab to monitor and detect rogue traffic that would have caught my phone doing what was described in the article. Does anyone have any open-source suggestions for DIY deep-packet analysis?

> Does anyone have any open-source suggestions for DIY deep-packet analysis?

https://github.com/aouinizied/nfstream

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