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Popular Pirate Sites ‘Disappear’ from DuckDuckGo’s Top Search Results

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Re: Popular Pirate Sites ‘Disappear’ from DuckDuckGo’s Top Search Results

#81

Post by ThePreacherMan »

disown wrote: post #20
bko wrote: post #4

I made an app that lets you compare duck-duck-go results with that of google, side by side [0][1]. One thing I found is how bad ddg is at removing conspiracy theories and other misinformation. Google is, for better or for worse, much more managed. For instance, search "are vaccines dangerous", google replies with .org and .gov sites, while ddg promotes dangersofvaccines.com. Even if you search "dangers of vaccines" i…

> One thing I found is how bad ddg is at removing conspiracy theories and other misinformation. Can't be any worse than google since they give preferential treatment to conspiracy theorists like CNN, MBNBC, Foxnews, etc. > For instance, search "are vaccines dangerous", google replies with .org and .gov sites So google should just push government and special interest groups funded by the wealthy? > Even if you search…

You are an idiot.

Re: Popular Pirate Sites ‘Disappear’ from DuckDuckGo’s Top Search Results

#82

Post by Aachen »

l0b0 wrote: post #66
spurgu wrote: post #59

Hey, it just hit me: Is there a search engine (meta or otherwise out there) where I can up/downvote sites (or otherwise customize the rankings)? Let's say I search for something HTML/JS/CSS related, I would generally want to prioritize MDN over W3Schools, but now I'm at the mercy of whatever the search engine decides is higher relevancy. I realize dynamic search results could be quite heavy, but it wouldn't necessari…

Unfortunately any such scheme nowadays would be a lucrative target (to say the least) for bots and mechanical Turks. It would basically just become another SEO metric. Instead you can exclude a specific site using "-site:example.com". This works on at least DDG and Google. Now, if only search engines would let me save those exclusions as preferences (even in a cookie, in case of privacy-focused search engines like DD…

I assumed GP meant for your own results only, not indeed have to power to influence everyone else's results.

Edit: checked again, indeed that was the idea:

> these preferences/filters for me,

Re: Popular Pirate Sites ‘Disappear’ from DuckDuckGo’s Top Search Results

#83

Post by textgel »

cortesoft wrote: post #75
textgel wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair point; I know there's a lot of truth in the quote “A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on.” and I've seen plenty examples of major damage caused thanks to the phenomenon (Which has no doubt helped with the arguments advocacating for censorship.) I'd say a couple of things. In a situation where we do have free speech I believe the truth does overall win out in the…

One thing I would say is that while it might be true that truth eventually finds a away, the lies can do a lot of damage in the meantime, and can in fact be used to prevent the truth from coming out. For example, take fascist propaganda... the lies are effective, and if left unchecked, can convince people to support fascist leaders, who will then block free speech, preventing the truth from winning out. This is a for…

Perhaps the fixes for the problems we have shouldn't involve some patchwork bodge to the laws that align our principles but should instead start at investigating why we need these bodges in the first place? It's an unthought out idea but between existing slander laws, a reasonable expectation of common sense/reason from your average citizen and a lack of corruption in government; I'm wondering if setting up the systems to ensure those aforementioned areas are solid would take care of the free speech problems for us.

Re: Popular Pirate Sites ‘Disappear’ from DuckDuckGo’s Top Search Results

#84

Post by yakireev »

_23sd wrote: post #77

I see moves like this as seriously harmful. By removing popular pirate sites (already shady enough), search engines steer traffic to even worse places: referral spam blogs, mirrors with malware-laden ads, abandoned and spam-filled forums, etc. Boosting these sites directly aids malware campaigns like SocGholish that use poorly secured blogs and forums to spread trojans that are then used to give access to ransomware…

Harmful for whom? For common folks, who are trying to download a movie but get a virus instead - yes, very harmful. For the parties who have a say about the situation - not really: Google/Bing/DDG lose nothing (given that all search engines behave the same), "copyright holders" win.

This is a part of the effort to decrease visibility of piracy and to drive to the "freak" zone: "piracy is illegal and dangerous, so better go watch some Netflix, kids!".

And it has been successful so far: how many teenagers you know who pirate stuff? A few generations ago it was normal, but now it isn't.

Re: Popular Pirate Sites ‘Disappear’ from DuckDuckGo’s Top Search Results

#85

Post by matheusmoreira »

_23sd wrote: post #77

I see moves like this as seriously harmful. By removing popular pirate sites (already shady enough), search engines steer traffic to even worse places: referral spam blogs, mirrors with malware-laden ads, abandoned and spam-filled forums, etc. Boosting these sites directly aids malware campaigns like SocGholish that use poorly secured blogs and forums to spread trojans that are then used to give access to ransomware…

> But Hollywood's imaginary lost revenues justify any unintended consequences, right?

In their minds, yes. They're absolutely self-righteous about their data monopoly.

We had a thread about a content decryption key leak some days ago:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25078096

Here's some fun posts...

> Who remembers when TPB were going to buy Sealand in order to host trackers out of the reach of authorities?

> Isn't Sealand just a couple of underwater charges planted by some clandestine operatives away from not existing?

> I'd love to see the day we're launching missiles at foreign ships over copyright violations.

Speculating about borderline terrorist behavior is fun but it would surprise no one if it actually happened. Copyright is "legitimate" and so such operations would not even be clandestine. The copyright industry has access to actual police forces who respond with extreme violence whenever someone threatens the artificial scarcity of their imaginary property even though the perpretators are not violent themselves.

Re: Popular Pirate Sites ‘Disappear’ from DuckDuckGo’s Top Search Results

#86

Post by coldtea »

ximeng wrote: post #3

The best long term solution to overbearing copyright is to create more content with permissive licenses. E.g. David Revoy creates art using open source software: https://www.davidrevoy.com/ Just as Microsoft and Apple would no doubt have even more locked down OSes if there wasn’t a fallback of Linux, so the more competition for people’s attention that is not controlled by large corporations, the less bargaining and c…

The best long term solution to overbearing copyright is to make people not depend on salaries for living.

Because else, all other things like talent being equal, a lot of the best content will be from those that have the income/time (afforded by income)/resources (afforded by income)/practice time (afforded by income)/etc to create it, and thus be given for pay, not with a permissive license.

Especially true for things that have different "production values" that cost money (movies, music, animation, and so on) - might not apply to e.g. poetry or other arts, or, in your example, to someone drawining comics (which can be done on the cheap).

Re: Popular Pirate Sites ‘Disappear’ from DuckDuckGo’s Top Search Results

#87

Post by edjrage »

l0b0 wrote: post #66
spurgu wrote: post #59

Hey, it just hit me: Is there a search engine (meta or otherwise out there) where I can up/downvote sites (or otherwise customize the rankings)? Let's say I search for something HTML/JS/CSS related, I would generally want to prioritize MDN over W3Schools, but now I'm at the mercy of whatever the search engine decides is higher relevancy. I realize dynamic search results could be quite heavy, but it wouldn't necessari…

Unfortunately any such scheme nowadays would be a lucrative target (to say the least) for bots and mechanical Turks. It would basically just become another SEO metric. Instead you can exclude a specific site using "-site:example.com". This works on at least DDG and Google. Now, if only search engines would let me save those exclusions as preferences (even in a cookie, in case of privacy-focused search engines like DD…

> any such scheme nowadays would be a lucrative target (to say the least) for bots and mechanical Turks

But that's assuming the service would use your upvotes to change results for other users, right? Would there be any harm in limiting this personalization to the user that made it?

Now what I think would be really cool would be the ability to share your “recipes” with others, in a completely transparent way, kinda like uBlock filter lists. Google's custom search is almost that, but still too black-and-white (and, of course, still comes with all the caveats of being Google).

Outright blocking entire sites or terms is too much. I want a search engine where I can calibrate results in a much more granular way. For instance, if I'm searching for something programming-related (which I could explicitly tell the engine vs. letting it infer for me), I'd like it to do things like not ignore special characters, and official reference documentation to appear first, then maybe Stack Overflow, etc. and leave content farms at the bottom, grouped in a compact space (but not necessarily make them disappear as some of them may actually be useful). Stuff like that.

Re: Popular Pirate Sites ‘Disappear’ from DuckDuckGo’s Top Search Results

#88

Post by coldtea »

bko wrote: post #4

I made an app that lets you compare duck-duck-go results with that of google, side by side [0][1]. One thing I found is how bad ddg is at removing conspiracy theories and other misinformation. Google is, for better or for worse, much more managed. For instance, search "are vaccines dangerous", google replies with .org and .gov sites, while ddg promotes dangersofvaccines.com. Even if you search "dangers of vaccines" i…

>One thing I found is how bad ddg is at removing conspiracy theories and other misinformation.

In all kinds of regimes, from dictatorships to western democracies, all kinds of valid (and sometimes proven in court, or historically, later) stories have been officially called "conspiracy theories" and/or misinformation.

And inversely, in all kinds of regimes, from dictatorships to western democracies, all kinds of bogus state propaganda has been officially called "the truth".

I'd rather not have a search engine decide for me...

Re: Popular Pirate Sites ‘Disappear’ from DuckDuckGo’s Top Search Results

#89

Post by coldtea »

tialaramex wrote: post #35
miked85 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want a search engine removing whatever they deem a "conspiracy theory" or "misinformation". I can decide on my own.

> I can decide on my own What tests have you done to confirm that you're actually any good at this? Or is the idea that you'd actively prefer to have your life ruined by misinformation than admit you might not have the best ability to distinguish - like the way some people would prefer to be crippled or maimed than accept safety protection on dangerous machinery because they find it emasculating?

>What tests have you done to confirm that you're actually any good at this?

That's where the "decide on my own" part comes from. I don't need to pass your tests or arbitrary criteria.

The most important point in having a democracy and citizens worthy of the name, is that you don't delegate this sorting out the wheat from the chaff to some third party that "knows better".

Re: Popular Pirate Sites ‘Disappear’ from DuckDuckGo’s Top Search Results

#90

Post by jaspergilley »

tialaramex wrote: post #35
miked85 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want a search engine removing whatever they deem a "conspiracy theory" or "misinformation". I can decide on my own.

> I can decide on my own What tests have you done to confirm that you're actually any good at this? Or is the idea that you'd actively prefer to have your life ruined by misinformation than admit you might not have the best ability to distinguish - like the way some people would prefer to be crippled or maimed than accept safety protection on dangerous machinery because they find it emasculating?

Most likely, if you're posting on HN, you're probably at least OK at critical thinking
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