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Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

westernsydney.edu.au

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Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#121

Post by john_moscow »

nippoo wrote: post #104

I honestly think (for me, at least) the implied causation is the wrong way round here. When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. When I'm feeling great, I'm generally motivated to go outside / do DIY / read / have a lot less screen time. I initially spent lots of effort trying to reduce my screen time (parental controls, etc) before realising that it was proba…

Anecdotal, but a few observations that work for myself:

* Lack of sleep lowers my energy and creative function. I no longer have energy to try new things, or to think out-of-the-box. The brain enters "survival mode" of just following the routine to make it to the end of day. If I let this accumulate over multiple days, the overall motivation and happiness starts dropping exponentially. This makes sense, since a lot of my happiness comes from envisioning goals and achieving them, which I cannot do if I don't sleep enough.

* If I get more than 1 night of bad sleep, I usually try to squeeze in a strenuous hike or just go cycling around the neighborhood. At least 1-2 hours, ideally 4-5. It increases the physical tiredness and makes it easier to fall asleep. It also fills in the short-term memory buffer with random stuff, that seems to have a positive correlation with subsequent sleep quality.

* Screen time generally depends on what you are doing. Routine work or clickbait browsing is bad because it doesn't make you tired and doesn't give enough short-term impressions. Playing games can give impressions, but they also raise excitement, that makes it harder to fall asleep. What works for me is to read for 30-60 minutes just before bedtime. Classic books, sci-fi, anything that is not exciting, but involves imagining what I just read about. After I'm done reading, I make a conscious effort to NOT think about work/plans/stressful topics. Thinking about what I just read usually works pretty well.

* You need to be very careful with alcohol. Moderate amount (say, 1-2 beers) makes it easier to fall asleep, but there's a high chance of waking up after 2-3 hours once it wears off. It also seems to recalibrate the nervous system, making it harder to fall asleep without drinking. So if you are having sleep problems, completely cutting of any booze for about a week shows wonderful results, despite the initial setback.

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#122

Post by pmiller2 »

exolymph wrote: post #119
rjkennedy98 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. Switch "on my phone" with "drinking alcohol" and that's literally how all alcoholics think.

Uh, that doesn't mean it isn't true. Alcoholics don't drink for no reason. (Source: had to quit drinking because of the problems it was causing for my life.)

Of course not. Nobody does things for "no reason." It's more that sometimes we don't understand the motivation. With alcoholics (and drug addicts in general), my guess as to the reason is that it feels good, or otherwise does something for them. I've been told one's first time doing heroin or smoking crack is pure heaven. People who quit generally do so because it causes secondary problems for them. And, that makes sense to me, because why quit something that feels good, but doesn't cause any other problems?

Most of this is pure speculation and extrapolation from my own experience. I had a short period of time when I was drinking excessively to deal with work stress. Once I noticed, I was able to stop, because I knew it would cause me problems later on. Luckily, I never suffered any health effects or legal issues from it, mostly because it was only about a 2-3 week period when I would drink every day after work.

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#123

Post by balfirevic »

dkersten wrote: post #32

I love how a lot of commenters are redefining “screen time” to suit their opinions or otherwise rationalise their screen time, rather than taking the study as is. I mean, sure, perhaps different types of screen time have different impact and this requires further study, but using anecdotes and opinions isn’t that.

Since it is an observational study, any talk of screen time causing/worsening depression (or abstaining from screen time helping it) is going to be speculation anyway.

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#124

Post by rconti »

ytwySXpMbS wrote: post #118
nippoo wrote: post #104

I honestly think (for me, at least) the implied causation is the wrong way round here. When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. When I'm feeling great, I'm generally motivated to go outside / do DIY / read / have a lot less screen time. I initially spent lots of effort trying to reduce my screen time (parental controls, etc) before realising that it was proba…

This is my exact problem with all these studies. I thought "people who don't care about themselves eat unhealthily" was a bit of a no-brainer. I started a clinical psychology course on EdX recently and the first exercise was Common Advice. They went on the say the only useful common advice to give to a depressed person is to tell them to go for a run, as that was the only correlation supported by evidence. A RUN! Tha…

Well, it works both ways. You may not be able to bring yourself to go for that run 9 of 10 times. And maybe on the 10th time, you could actually do it, but you say "well, what's the point, I'd never stick with it". One of the most powerful things for me is doing the right thing. Even if it's just once. It's amazing how small steps can turn into habits.

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#125

Post by rconti »

john_moscow wrote: post #121
nippoo wrote: post #104

I honestly think (for me, at least) the implied causation is the wrong way round here. When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. When I'm feeling great, I'm generally motivated to go outside / do DIY / read / have a lot less screen time. I initially spent lots of effort trying to reduce my screen time (parental controls, etc) before realising that it was proba…

Anecdotal, but a few observations that work for myself: * Lack of sleep lowers my energy and creative function. I no longer have energy to try new things, or to think out-of-the-box. The brain enters "survival mode" of just following the routine to make it to the end of day. If I let this accumulate over multiple days, the overall motivation and happiness starts dropping exponentially. This makes sense, since a lot o…

With alcohol, your REM sleep is suppressed, and resting heart rate is quite a bit higher.

I watch my sleep cycles on my Garmin (and also track their 'body battery' thing, which I think is based on stress which is based on heart rate variability). If I have "some" drinks (eg, more than just 1 or 2 small ones), I can easily see how RHR is high and my recovery doesn't even BEGIN until say 3am. When you start tracking and watching those stats every day, you can see how different you feel when you get a good night's sleep. Vs an alcohol-aided-but-not-drunk-not-hungover sleep.

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#126

Post by brianmcc »

sp3000 wrote: post #91
brianmcc wrote: post #19

I intuitively agree that optimal sleep and exercise and diet and screen time probably make a difference to wellbeing, but am I alone in thinking that trying to determine a "link" between these things is lazy, easy, obvious and just wholly inadequate? We want to know, definitively, what are causes and effects . I appreciate that's hard. But why waste so much time and money just trying to establish "links" which are fu…

Here is a cause and effect: Optimal neurotransmitter function highly depends on sleep quality and quantity (and you can further the connection to movement and nutrition as well). Sub-optimal neurotransmitter function can lead to sub-clinical or clinical depression. "Studies have shown that NREM sleep is important for turning off the norepinephrine, serotonin and histamine neurotransmitters, which in turn allows their…

Thanks - that's more like it!

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#127

Post by stordoff »

throwaway3178 wrote: post #22
sradman wrote: post #15

The paper Multiple lifestyle factors and depressed mood: a cross-sectional and longitudinal analysis of the UK Biobank (N = 84,860) [1]. The study compares questionnaire results of healthy controls (HC) to people with a history of major depressive disorder (MDD): > Cross-sectional analysis of 84,860 participants showed that in both MDD and HCs, physical activity, healthy diet, and optimal sleep duration were associat…

I've been suicidally depressed my whole life. I currently self medicate with reddit, youtube, etc. If I let my mind wander for just a minute the thoughts come flooding in. I also find it very difficult to go to sleep because it involves turning off my distractions and being alone with my own mind. I think the title should be changed. I felt this way long before tech entered my life; as a child I used books for this p…

> If I let my mind wander for just a minute the thoughts come flooding in.

I have something vaguely similar with OCD - needing constant stimulation to draw myself away from intrusive thoughts and compulsions. I've found that occasionally deliberately just letting it happen, initially just for a couple of minutes and building up to 10-15 minutes or so, has been extremely useful in gaining some kind of control over them rather than just being overwhelmed. I don't know if something similar would be helpful with depression, but it may be worth considering.

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#128

Post by damnencryption »

ytwySXpMbS wrote: post #118
nippoo wrote: post #104

I honestly think (for me, at least) the implied causation is the wrong way round here. When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. When I'm feeling great, I'm generally motivated to go outside / do DIY / read / have a lot less screen time. I initially spent lots of effort trying to reduce my screen time (parental controls, etc) before realising that it was proba…

This is my exact problem with all these studies. I thought "people who don't care about themselves eat unhealthily" was a bit of a no-brainer. I started a clinical psychology course on EdX recently and the first exercise was Common Advice. They went on the say the only useful common advice to give to a depressed person is to tell them to go for a run, as that was the only correlation supported by evidence. A RUN! Tha…

It's helpful to take subtle actions toward change for better when you are depressed. A key part of human tendency is to be consistent with what we have already done. It's a strong motivator to keep habits.

On intrusive thoughts, I think identifying them early and accepting them is important to re-directing them. It takes lot of patience and practice. Don't give up on the first few tries. Just remember that eventually you will be consistent with your actions.

I am having a horrible day -> what's the least I could do to make this day better? and then do it.

Please don't aim for something you can't do. It's okay if you can get out of the bed. No need to go for run. Aim for the least and gradually increase otherwise you will not do anything due to fear.

Another skill that will help you immensely is ability to prioritize the right things. Writing down what you really should do in order and sticking it to somewhere visible helps.

In the end, no clear solution exist. For some, medication might be the best option and for others, it's lot of training to control the factors leading to intrusive thoughts and eventually depressive episode.

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#130

Post by varispeed »

blix wrote: post #60
varispeed wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can get into a feedback loop, but that needs to be talked about, not just outright dismissed.

I don't feel it's dismissive at all. Yeah "rules of thumb" and correlational studies are imperfect, but I think they are better than nothing. It's usually easier to break out of a feedback loop once you recognize that you are in one.

This is exactly what therapy helps with, but if you don't know what triggers it, then simply reducing screen time will not solve anything, because you'll be missing something. It's good to learn about mindfulness, asking yourself questions e.g. why am I spending time on my phone now? and going deeper.
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