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Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

westernsydney.edu.au

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Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#111

Post by bgroat »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #110
nippoo wrote: post #104

I honestly think (for me, at least) the implied causation is the wrong way round here. When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. When I'm feeling great, I'm generally motivated to go outside / do DIY / read / have a lot less screen time. I initially spent lots of effort trying to reduce my screen time (parental controls, etc) before realising that it was proba…

You're highlighting the feedback mechanism that this disease uses to maintain itself. The spiral of doom. Any attempt to break it is beneficial, though it may feel like the opposite is happening.

I remember once explaining to a friend that depression wasn't really "feeling sad all the time"

It was more like "Emotional AIDS" - it's not that the depression made me sad, it just took away all my emotional immunity/resilience

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#112

Post by colecut »

bgroat wrote: post #111
Florin_Andrei wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're highlighting the feedback mechanism that this disease uses to maintain itself. The spiral of doom. Any attempt to break it is beneficial, though it may feel like the opposite is happening.

I remember once explaining to a friend that depression wasn't really "feeling sad all the time" It was more like "Emotional AIDS" - it's not that the depression made me sad, it just took away all my emotional immunity/resilience

No idea why this would be downvoted.

I lost my only sibling to an overdose last year.

I lost the mother of my child to cancer in February.

Three days later, my current gf was diagnosed with cancer.

Even when I'm not sad, I'm definitely highly irritable, easily overwhelmed, lack patience...

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#113

Post by rjkennedy98 »

nippoo wrote: post #104

I honestly think (for me, at least) the implied causation is the wrong way round here. When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. When I'm feeling great, I'm generally motivated to go outside / do DIY / read / have a lot less screen time. I initially spent lots of effort trying to reduce my screen time (parental controls, etc) before realising that it was proba…

> When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone.

Switch "on my phone" with "drinking alcohol" and that's literally how all alcoholics think.

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#114

Post by bingerman »

baron816 wrote: post #88

I’d really like to see Apple/Google or others try to turn screen time into a sort of currency. A child does some chores? They get 30 minutes of scene time added to their bank account. They keep some screen time unused and they earn interest on that time they can cash out later. Their sibling has a birthday? Let them transfer some time as a gift. Limit screen time and build some financial literacy and delayed gratific…

I prefer managing my childrens' screen time myself rather than delegating yet another thing to some cold institution or those outright evil companies. Thankfully in my case they are usually more interested in real three dimensional things so there is very little to manage.

In my opinion screen time is like the worst reward for your child. Screens should be treated like inherently evil tools that can be of value if used with awareness.

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#115

Post by DoreenMichele »

It starts off with this extremely neutral and reasonable statement that says nothing about causation:

Screen time and tobacco smoking were also significantly associated with higher frequency of depressed mood.

And then goes on to say "We need to limit screen time" which is a baseless conclusion.

Smoking is known to mediate depression because of what it does to brain chemistry. One medication that gets prescribed to treat depression has such a strong track record of causing people to stop smoking as a side effect that it now gets prescribed for that purpose.

I will agree with commenters here objecting to the framing that "You need to reduce screen time as a means to treat depression." That assumption is unwarranted and not nuanced.

Screen time likely goes up when you are tired and sick. Being tired and sick can help foster depression.

The solution in a case like that is not "You need less screen time." It's "You need to get well and better rested."

When I'm sick and tired, I spend all my time on the computer and/or playing games on my phone to keep myself occupied so I don't go nuts. Taking away my screen time at such times would be a net harm (yes, I know this for a fact).

Granted, I have at times had to make judgment calls about how I spend that time to make sure it's constructive and not a bad habit.

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#116

Post by kylecazar »

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #113
nippoo wrote: post #104

I honestly think (for me, at least) the implied causation is the wrong way round here. When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. When I'm feeling great, I'm generally motivated to go outside / do DIY / read / have a lot less screen time. I initially spent lots of effort trying to reduce my screen time (parental controls, etc) before realising that it was proba…

> When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. Switch "on my phone" with "drinking alcohol" and that's literally how all alcoholics think.

Ehh -- I'd just reconsider the 'literally all' part. There are alcoholics who just chase the feeling for itself -- a quick fix for sad thoughts, but not for all. It's a complicated disease, but some with issues crave booze regardless of how they're doing mentally. At least in my somewhat limited experience.

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#117

Post by fulafel »

What are the options for voice based interaction with software?

Eg it might be cool to have audio based Ingress style AR/reality games, that would involve narration and speech recognition. Do they exist? (edit: apparently yes - https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/playcrafting-and-bo... - but also no: https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/bose-ends-audio-a...)

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#118

Post by ytwySXpMbS »

nippoo wrote: post #104

I honestly think (for me, at least) the implied causation is the wrong way round here. When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. When I'm feeling great, I'm generally motivated to go outside / do DIY / read / have a lot less screen time. I initially spent lots of effort trying to reduce my screen time (parental controls, etc) before realising that it was proba…

This is my exact problem with all these studies. I thought "people who don't care about themselves eat unhealthily" was a bit of a no-brainer. I started a clinical psychology course on EdX recently and the first exercise was Common Advice. They went on the say the only useful common advice to give to a depressed person is to tell them to go for a run, as that was the only correlation supported by evidence. A RUN! That's so unhelpful that it's actually a common joke between the depressed people that I've met. If you can't get out of bed, you aren't going to be able to go for a run.

Similarly, if you ruminate on horrible things every time you stop and think, you're going to want to go on your phone late into the night until you're so tired you can go straight to sleep. If you don't even know if life is worth living, it's quite hard to avoid eating that bag of chips. I thought these were obvious, but perhaps it's not to people who've never experienced depression. Perhaps the reductionist view, as unhelpful as it is, plays into it too.

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#119

Post by exolymph »

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #113
nippoo wrote: post #104

I honestly think (for me, at least) the implied causation is the wrong way round here. When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. When I'm feeling great, I'm generally motivated to go outside / do DIY / read / have a lot less screen time. I initially spent lots of effort trying to reduce my screen time (parental controls, etc) before realising that it was proba…

> When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. Switch "on my phone" with "drinking alcohol" and that's literally how all alcoholics think.

Uh, that doesn't mean it isn't true. Alcoholics don't drink for no reason. (Source: had to quit drinking because of the problems it was causing for my life.)

Re: Less screen time and more sleep critical for preventing depression

#120

Post by bityard »

ytwySXpMbS wrote: post #118
nippoo wrote: post #104

I honestly think (for me, at least) the implied causation is the wrong way round here. When I'm feeling sad, I tend to be unmotivated and liable to spend more time / all day on my phone. When I'm feeling great, I'm generally motivated to go outside / do DIY / read / have a lot less screen time. I initially spent lots of effort trying to reduce my screen time (parental controls, etc) before realising that it was proba…

This is my exact problem with all these studies. I thought "people who don't care about themselves eat unhealthily" was a bit of a no-brainer. I started a clinical psychology course on EdX recently and the first exercise was Common Advice. They went on the say the only useful common advice to give to a depressed person is to tell them to go for a run, as that was the only correlation supported by evidence. A RUN! Tha…

Well it's not totally crazy. I suffer from mild chronic depression and I have noticed that doing my morning exercise routine makes it much more likely that my mood will be decent throughout the day than if I wake up and decide I just don't feel like exercising that day.

I have also experimented on myself to see whether 30 minutes of exercise improved my mood in the middle of the day. Not totally surprisingly, it _usually_ did. Not always, but usually. It never once had a negative impact.

The main problem is one of motivation/willpower. Telling a depressed person that they should exercise to feel better seems like solid advice on the surface of it, because it stands a high chance of both being true and actually working, BUT they are not in a place to usefully implement the advice. The brain gets in the way and overrides what we see as "common sense." The same way you can't tell an alcoholic to have a nice big steak instead of a beer for dinner. The person usually even knows the "right" thing to do, they are just literally unable to take the right action in the moment.

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