Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think trust in your providers treating you well is required for low-touch SaaS sales for key infrastructure to work well. If you don't trust your counterparties, then you get long contract negotiations and minimum viable contract sizes balloon, as many potential buyers just won't be willing to be dependent on your company without assurances.
Exactly. Certain SAAS companies (cough Datadog cough) seem to have very old school sales processes in place. I don't love the larger cloud providers, but at least they lay out their standard prices, supply a price calculator, and I can figure out if I want to use them without hearing someone tell me they'll have to "clear it with their director".
Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing
311–320 of 331 posts
Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not just dev time, that would be easy. It’s getting every customer to re-enter their credit card details which won’t happen without a significant uptick in arrears, and depending on the type of customer, churn.
I'm constantly surprised that Direct Debit isn't a thing in the US.
Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing
#313(Stripe cofounder.) Hi folks -- as Edwin points out elsewhere in the thread, the article title isn't accurate. (I'll update or delete my comment if it's fixed.) [Update: it was changed. It used to read "Stripe is now charging 0.5% more for recurring charges."] You can happily make recurring charges yourself and no additional fees are incurred. Lots of Stripe customers do this and we don't charge anything extra for it…
... What I'm not so happy about is: * we have asked Stripe to sign a contract for years (something requested by our institutional investors but have always been just pointed to an online MSA URL * we are now being asked to sign a contract suddenly w/new line-item charges and no ramp-up or notice period
Most companies (especially those that are PE backed) have already done year end planning + budgetting.
Happy to provide the details of our timeline but so far at a high-level: * contacted by a new account rep 11-days ago about signing a contract * still have not received the proposed rates for billing, processing, rev rec, sigma etc ... * ... but have been told that Billing charging needs to kick off 1/1/2021 (which is essentially 45-days away)
Thanks, JE
Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing
#314Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don’t need to do any work, but you just need to pay more ;)
You don't need to! The pricing doesn't kick in 'till next year. We want to give people time to migrate away or to implement a billing system manually. (And if anyone wants more time to do that, we're happy to grant it.)
Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you want to comply with worldwide payment laws and tax requirements, then I'd disagree it's "not one of the complicated problems". It's also not something that a service like Stripe will handle for you to a useful degree. Edit: And dunning. Which, AFAIK, you still can't actually test properly with Stripe's system before making it live. I'm not even sure it's fully documented yet, and if it is, that's a relatively…
> If you want to comply with worldwide payment laws and tax requirements, then I'd disagree it's "not one of the complicated problems". It's also not something that a service like Stripe will handle for you to a useful degree. And yet it is a key part of the engineering problem that has to be solved, which moves it away from "not one of the complicated problems" and being "quite standard work" (the original post I wa…
I don't think this stuff is particularly difficult to get right, having essentially done it myself in the past. Indeed, I've never actually worked anywhere that directly integrated with a single payment service without at least some degree of isolation/abstraction. (This is also why features like Stripe's recent customer portal are of little interest to us. Directing a customer there to update their details means they can only change them to something else we use Stripe for, but we don't want to be locked into Stripe like that, we want to offer each customer the full range of payment options we support wherever they are.)
The harder things to implement these days, at least in our experience at my own businesses, are the mechanical integration with all the different payment schemes, where you really do need a specialist service that provides the required access, and the tax and compliance issues, where the ever-changing landscape makes outsourcing this aspect of the setup more and more attractive. But you can get the first of those with many different services and you need something like a merchant of record or one of the dedicated tax management services for the second.
Presumably for some types of business fraud prevention is also a big deal, but again you'd get the basic checks with many services that let you charge a card or the like, and I'm sceptical about how much these fancy AI-based big-data-crunching models are really improving performance. In any case, for those of us in more niche markets, there is little scope for someone to defraud us significantly anyway and the risk of anything bad happening has been very low over the years.
So in the end, with the way the industry seems to be moving, I can see an argument for just outsourcing basic payment processing and then handling the automation and tax/regulatory stuff in-house (for example, if you already have a dev team to implement what you need and you're already set up in some other way on the tax/regulatory side). I can also see an argument for outsourcing just about everything to a merchant of record service. But I think the case for the middle ground model that most of the payment services we've been using over the past decade or so operate is getting weaker all the time. And since they all keep forcing us to do major integration work just to keep the same functionality we already had from breaking and putting up their prices, I can't honestly say we've been feeling a lot of loyalty to any of them lately, hence our ongoing investigations of possible alternatives that I mentioned in other comments.
Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing
#316Earlier quoted context omitted.
Without knowing their business model, it really doesn't matter how much money is moving through their system. It could very well be that they have a lot of buyers because of a very low profit margin and this actually has a notable impact on the company's finances. Saying you are "held hostage" might be a bit of a dramatic way to phrase it, but for some companies a change like this actually makes a difference. Such is…
> It's not your "fault" if you decide to use AWS services and become deeply integrated and they increase their prices by 10% and you can no longer afford their services... It's no one's fault. It's just unfortunate and all you can do is try to work around it, or close the company. It's your fault if you chose lockin. If you don't want to talk about fault, fine, but then don't go on to talk about fault :)
You have to start somewhere. Unless you have been handed a substantial amount of starting money and baked "we need to be provider agnostic" into your company beliefs from the beginning, it's rarely an early priority. Becoming profitable is usually what comes first. Securing a stronger foundation for your platform comes over time.
> If you don't want to talk about fault, fine, but then don't go on to talk about fault :)
What is the point of saying this?
Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for jumping in here so quick. I'm sure it'll be a tough thread, but something about this response rubs me the wrong way. It doesn't seem like it's really addressing the change (eg. why is it worth _existing_ customers to be paying an extra 0.5%? The fact that Stripe added features for new customers doesn't really impact those of us who have been with you for 5-10 years). Additionally, I don't recall getting an…
Yes, you'll be emailed—if you were on the old Subscriptions pricing and are using Billing now, the emails are going out now (most have already been sent). Email me at edwin@stripe.com and we can also check.
Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing
#318Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Stripe Checkout with Fraud detection - which requires you to use their hosted checkout page Does it? In my experience you can just use their Hosted Fields which are actually really great.
That's not how they pitched it to us - and I asked for clarification multiple times because of how absurd the proposal was for a well established eCommerce site. Sending customers off-domain for a payment is not something we were willing to do for a normal credit card checkout flow. Even "hosted fields" is absurd (and by that I assume you mean an iFrame you embed), and would require redesigning significant portions o…
Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing
#319We really need a way to facilitate money transfer between one or more parties. There are way too many middlemen (credit card processor, credit card network, bank fees, merchant fees, exchange network fees, ...) that artificially inflate the cost of products and services. This is likely worsened when you consider transactions between parties in different countries.
Re: Stripe migrates Stripe Subscriptions users to more expensive Stripe Billing
#320Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have PayPal subscriptions billing, it's 2.9% + $0.30/txn - this might be slightly less than Stripe now?
Considering the Durbin Amendment capped debit card processing at 0.05% and $0.21 per transaction, and interchange pricing for credit cards ranges from 0.65% to 2.4% plus a few cents for the auth fee, it is pure profiteering that PayPal and Stripe charge this much to process cards. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durbin_amendment https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/visa-usa-in...