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McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

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Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#551

Post by cercatrova »

sweetheart wrote: post #549
cercatrova wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it never need to? I can say that a steak is a good food, and by vegans' definition it involves the suffering of a cow, and therefore, sometimes good food involves suffering.

I'm not saying all good food is cruelty free. I'm saying one can eat exclusively delicious food without involving cruelty.

Yes, but that's not the argument that the poster above was making. Good food can be cruelty free, but not all good food can be. Therefore, if you want a specific food that requires cruelty, you're just gonna have to accept that fact. Somewhat related, but why would I restrict my choice of food if I want to eat what I want to eat?

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#552

Post by cercatrova »

sweetheart wrote: post #547
realisticeater wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's talking about murder? I'm not for eating humans lol. This sort of phrasing is intellectually dishonest. > That's what the entirety of animal agriculture is. We go WAAAY out of our way. It's expensive, inefficient, unhealthy, and immoral, and we do it anyway. So are you against eating all meat or in favor of reforming industrial meat farming? These are two very different positions. > It never needs to. Yes I did…

> My taste buds are more important than a given animal's suffering, plain and simple. lol holy shit. When your reasoning gets to this point, I think we need to back up and appreciate the insanity of what you're saying. Would you be fine with some alien species arriving to Earth and doing all this to you? Would you accept it and think "Ah yes well it is what it is!"

Like it or not, that's what the argument is of most people who eat meat. I also think my tastebuds are more important than an animal. This is why things like impossible foods sidestep this issue, because they know people don't switch en masse on ethical grounds, but they do it you make a better product, in terms of price and more importantly, taste.

If an alien comes to us to eat us, I mean yes, that's just how it is. We can try fighting back of course (which species wants to be killed?) but if they win then, what can you do? Appeal emotionally with them? They could say the same thing, that it's just how it is. Might really does make right. If they have superiority in fighting power, I mean, there's nothing we can do other than accept it. And that's the same thing that's happening with us and the animals we eat.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#553

Post by cercatrova »

sweetheart wrote: post #548
thefounder wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Just because you enjoy a good steak doesn't mean you agree to torture the animal. Also "happy" animals seem to have better taste so it's a win win. https://www.vice.com/en/article/8q8984/why-animals-that-died...

How on Earth is it a win for the animal you are raising to then kill? If the cow could talk, do you think it'd describe the situation as a win win? If I keep a slave, and raise them to harvest their organs, and keep them content until their teenage years only to kill them, is that a win win?

What kind of slave? A human slave? They're more valuable in other forms of labor than harvesting their organs (usually; sometimes organ prices can exceed labor value). That's why slavery and organ harvesting still exist after all, if no one thought it was valuable, then it wouldn't exist. We don't have slaves in developed countries because we figured out that former slaves being able to use their brains for labor rather than their physical prowess was more valuable for society as a whole.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#554

Post by sweetheart »

cercatrova wrote: post #552
sweetheart wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My taste buds are more important than a given animal's suffering, plain and simple. lol holy shit. When your reasoning gets to this point, I think we need to back up and appreciate the insanity of what you're saying. Would you be fine with some alien species arriving to Earth and doing all this to you? Would you accept it and think "Ah yes well it is what it is!"

Like it or not, that's what the argument is of most people who eat meat. I also think my tastebuds are more important than an animal. This is why things like impossible foods sidestep this issue, because they know people don't switch en masse on ethical grounds, but they do it you make a better product, in terms of price and more importantly, taste. If an alien comes to us to eat us, I mean yes, that's just how it is…

So if I can physically overpower someone is it okay for me to keep them as a slave? Is it moral to kill someone if I gain pleasure from the act, as long as I’m physically capable of it?

The alien hypothetical isn’t about what is possible, it’s about what is right. Would you feel that the aliens should be allowed to enslave and eat you? Or would you feel like you’re being wronged, and that you don’t deserve it?

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#555

Post by sweetheart »

cercatrova wrote: post #551
sweetheart wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying all good food is cruelty free. I'm saying one can eat exclusively delicious food without involving cruelty.

Yes, but that's not the argument that the poster above was making. Good food can be cruelty free, but not all good food can be. Therefore, if you want a specific food that requires cruelty, you're just gonna have to accept that fact. Somewhat related, but why would I restrict my choice of food if I want to eat what I want to eat?

Because it involves horrific agony to be experienced by a living thing.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#556

Post by sweetheart »

cercatrova wrote: post #553
sweetheart wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How on Earth is it a win for the animal you are raising to then kill? If the cow could talk, do you think it'd describe the situation as a win win? If I keep a slave, and raise them to harvest their organs, and keep them content until their teenage years only to kill them, is that a win win?

What kind of slave? A human slave? They're more valuable in other forms of labor than harvesting their organs (usually; sometimes organ prices can exceed labor value). That's why slavery and organ harvesting still exist after all, if no one thought it was valuable, then it wouldn't exist. We don't have slaves in developed countries because we figured out that former slaves being able to use their brains for labor rat…

This is the most HN response ever.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#557

Post by ineedasername »

dkersten wrote: post #534
ineedasername wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there's a wide variety of "American" style. First two main distinctions: NY/NJ style, which is generally the traditional American pizza. 1" crust, a little crispy, thin body, sauce, lots of cheese. This has a few variations though, most notable "thin crust", which is often cracker-thin and very firm & crispy, the body much thinner too. The other main variety is Chicago deep-dish pizza, which is very thick, anyw…

I guess I was mainly referring to NY/NJ and Chicago style, since they're the ones I'm most accustomed to, but overall I guess the main difference I see compared to Italian pizza is a much greater emphasis on cheese. > But if you put aside ideological considerations, almost all pizza is fundamentally good. Completely agree. I like American style pizza and I like cheese. I also like Italian style pizza and often find i…

On cheese-less: Yes, there's a brand of really good quality frozen pizzas that has a variety that has a little extra sauce, no cheese, and spinach. It was surprisingly good. I also have a pizza stone in my over to bake frozen varieties, or the occasional home-made pie. Well worth the investment. It doesn't product pizzeria quality output the way their specialized ovens do (and especially brick ovens) but it is pretty good.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#558

Post by maxsilver »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #148
maxsilver wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would they really get that angry? Most people know that "Chicken" McNuggets are only modestly-chicken-based (and are primarily corn starch and whatever other stuff). McNuggets are still a top seller, even though real 100% Chicken Tenders were on the same menu right next to them for years. Similarly McChicken "nugget-paste-based" sandwiches are on the McDonalds menu, right next to 100%-real Buttermilk Chicken sandwich…

IIRC McDo in the UK advertise their nuggets as "100% breast meat". They clearly aren't as they have batter, but I assume they mean "the meat portion is 100% chicken breast" yet have a niggling feeling they mean "the meat we put in is all chicken breast but we put textured soya/other fillers in too". One of the problems with all the lying in advertising is you never quite know how cynical you need to be.

From an American perspective, food quality in the UK seems to be much higher than we have here.

In the US, McDonalds Nuggets contain way more filler -- up to 50% of any given nugget isn't even actual chicken meat at all, according to the University of Mississippi - https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/10/11/232106472/wh...

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#559

Post by ineedasername »

ericbarrett wrote: post #452
ineedasername wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there's a wide variety of "American" style. First two main distinctions: NY/NJ style, which is generally the traditional American pizza. 1" crust, a little crispy, thin body, sauce, lots of cheese. This has a few variations though, most notable "thin crust", which is often cracker-thin and very firm & crispy, the body much thinner too. The other main variety is Chicago deep-dish pizza, which is very thick, anyw…

I would argue there’s a third Western style. Typically served round; thicker, more sour crust; a very generous cheddar/jack/mozzarella blend; and modest amounts of sauce, compared to Chicago-style anyway. The crust is often dusted with cornmeal. Round Table (founded in Menlo Park!) epitomized this pizza, though I haven’t eaten there in years so I can’t say if they’ve kept any semblance of quality. You’ll find it thro…

I'm in the NY/NJ area and have a near endless selection of places to choose from: a bunch use cornmeal on the bottom... I'm not sure if that's just to prevent sticking to the oven or not, but it produces a texture I really prefer.

See, that's the thing: there really is an infinite variety. I know that's true of other foods, but very few other foods are available in such diverse forms with that level of ubiquity. In a 5-square mile area I could easily get 10 different types, and it's all available with pretty much the same convenience as fast food.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#560

Post by belorn »

cies wrote: post #497
dzhiurgis wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like giving lactation hormones is way more ethical than clubbing baby cows

Afaik not possible.

Interesting question. A search later and a quick read of this study (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15377608/) and the answer seems to be one about economics and FDA approval.
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