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McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

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Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#531

Post by spiderfarmer »

calcifer wrote: post #525
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! When has anyone ever lied, told only half the truth, misrepresented issues, or omitted important facts to push their agenda? You really think someone would do that, just go on the internet and tell lies?

Yeah, it doesn't work like that. If you claim someone is lying the onus is on you to prove it, we don't ask people to prove a negative.

Yeah, I'm not sure it should work like that anymore. Trump lied in almost every publicly uttered sentence. Why is the onus still on the media to disprove him? At some point you should not automatically trust an institution like the presidency anymore.

Back to the original question. NGO's repeatedly say a single kg of meat costs 50.000 liters of water. That number in itself is not undisputed. If they don't specify which meat and which country they're referring to, they're lying. Or misrepresenting facts at the least. If they use this argument in a region that has no shortage water, they're abusing this fact to support a narrative. Etcetera.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#532

Post by read_if_gay_ »

calcifer wrote: post #525
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! When has anyone ever lied, told only half the truth, misrepresented issues, or omitted important facts to push their agenda? You really think someone would do that, just go on the internet and tell lies?

Yeah, it doesn't work like that. If you claim someone is lying the onus is on you to prove it, we don't ask people to prove a negative.

I'm not claiming anyone's lying. Just that they probably are.

If I showed you a study on the supposedly benign health effects of tobacco, except that study was funded by Philip Morris, would you trust it until proven wrong? Would you argue "how is their obvious agenda a bad thing?"

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#533

Post by sunwukung »

msandford wrote: post #216
thorwasdfasdf wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, oils are pretty bad for you but Red meat is a class 2 carcinogen. So, neither are good for you.

According to the WHO class 2 is "probably carcinogenic" and what was effectively a meta (or meta-meta) analysis showed that the increased risk was 18%. Do we know how bad vegetable oils are for people yet? Is there any reason to think that they're 100% A-OK? Humans have been eating meat for 10s or 100s of thousands if not millions of years. Humans have been eating highly refined vegetable and seed oils for what, a co…

Our life expectancy has also grown drastically in the last 100 years - for a variety of reasons, so this is a bit of a blunt instrument

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#534

Post by dkersten »

ineedasername wrote: post #364
dkersten wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Italian pizza has rather little cheese. I remember watching something once where the chef of a fancy pizzeria said that the most important thing in pizza is the bread: it should taste great without any topping. Then the sauce and finally everything else. I've had a great vegan pizza once and between bread, sauce and toppings, it tasted like great Italian-style pizza. Sure, a sprinkle of cheese would have made it…

Well, there's a wide variety of "American" style. First two main distinctions: NY/NJ style, which is generally the traditional American pizza. 1" crust, a little crispy, thin body, sauce, lots of cheese. This has a few variations though, most notable "thin crust", which is often cracker-thin and very firm & crispy, the body much thinner too. The other main variety is Chicago deep-dish pizza, which is very thick, anyw…

I guess I was mainly referring to NY/NJ and Chicago style, since they're the ones I'm most accustomed to, but overall I guess the main difference I see compared to Italian pizza is a much greater emphasis on cheese.

> But if you put aside ideological considerations, almost all pizza is fundamentally good.

Completely agree. I like American style pizza and I like cheese. I also like Italian style pizza and often find it has more interesting flavours, but that doesn't make American style pizza bad or anything. Just different. A good American style pizza is better than a bad Italian style too, obviously.

My main point though was that the idea of cheese-less pizza really doesn't seem strange to me, once you look outside of the American cheese-focused pizzas and that's the only reason I brought up the differences really.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#535

Post by sunwukung »

dandare wrote: post #214
markdown wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the appeal of a vegan pizza? Is it even pizza without cheese?

The appeal of vegan pizza is that no animals were industrially farmed to make it. If you think your cheese is suffering free you are lying to yourself.

I'm vegan (plant-based eater is less catchy) - but I started for health reasons tbh. Personally, I don't eat that many substitutes, except for convenience when I haven't got time to cook.

While the suffering argument is entirely valid, it's obviously not a successful driver of change. The climate change/pandemic/health angle is easily more appealing to the average consumer.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#536

Post by sunwukung »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #392
moab wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you take the time to learn about dairy farming (even in free range dairy farms), you would quickly find out that cows have a natural lifespan of ~20 years, but cows used in dairy farms have an average lifespan of ~6 years. From the perspective of giving entities that we believe are probably conscious and probably feel suffering and pain a fair chance at life, minimizing the amount of dairy and cheese we cons…

> a fair chance at life If you eliminate meat and dairy, those animals won’t have any life at all. The only reason they are there is because humans eat them.

not much of a life really is it? That aside, it would make room for the non-livestock animals to live on the planet, reintroduce some biodiversity and create genetic firewalls to stop pandemics going absolutely buckwild.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#537

Post by NewOrderNow »

crooked-v wrote: post #450
NewOrderNow wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just repeated yourself. So I ask again why when you claim that this is something you think is bad. By conception, you want something that is not what you claim to desire. It is engineered and the opposite of natural by design.

First, I'm not a vegan. Second, vegans avoid animal products because they come from animals . Various imitation and substitute products do not come from animals and so are not avoided. Or, tl;dr: You do realize soy milk is very popular among vegans, right?

Apologies, I failed to communicate my point correctly.

What I am trying to say is that vegans are trying to engineer a product. So this product the opposite of natural, so what is with the claims of health?

I don't know why I used the word "bad"

I find it frustrating as a person who only eats meat and vegetables to have to tolerate vegans who claim health benefits. Most vegans I've met are fat.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#538

Post by NewOrderNow »

sweetheart wrote: post #387
sukilot wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Vegans" aren't who really want burgers. Newbie vegans who have been indoctrinated by a lifetime burger culture. Burgers aren't a huge deal in Asia, for example.

I'm no newbie vegan and I still looooove vegan burgers. I'm "indoctrinated" only insofar that everyone is "indoctrinated" by the gastronomic culture of their upbringing.

I think you just claimed that you are a follower and easier influenced.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#539

Post by NewOrderNow »

NewOrderNow wrote: post #314
PretzelPirate wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But vegans want burgers, they just don’t want to kill an animal for that burger. This is no different than someone making a turkey burger because they don’t like beef. For some reason, only vegans get called out for making substitutions.

Hmm, then I guess that leads to my next question: what is a burger? Is a turkey burger a burger? Is a burger ground meat? Is it simply ground protein (making a vegan burger a burger)?

Got to love people who don't know how to communicate. I imagine these are the type of people getting jobs.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#540

Post by astura »

kibwen wrote: post #215
dkersten wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Italian pizza has rather little cheese. I remember watching something once where the chef of a fancy pizzeria said that the most important thing in pizza is the bread: it should taste great without any topping. Then the sauce and finally everything else. I've had a great vegan pizza once and between bread, sauce and toppings, it tasted like great Italian-style pizza. Sure, a sprinkle of cheese would have made it…

And some pizza doesn't have any cheese at all, such as pizza marinara ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_marinara ), which is rare in the US but was pretty common growing up in the Italian portions of Western Pennsylvania.

Supposedly a "plain" pizza in New Haven has only a bit of pecorino romano on it - gotta specifically ask for "mozz" if you want it.
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