Parler 'free speech' app tops charts in wake of Trump defeat • Hacker News Board

Re: Parler 'free speech' app tops charts in wake of Trump defeat

#121

Post by Taikonerd » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 7:31 PM UTC

thechao wrote: post #62

seebetter wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also because the corporate media in general and the left leaning companies, don’t really respect facts anymore. Entire networks ignore valid stories. And they subtly and aggressive distort and deflect, “There is no explicit evidence of overt corruption and to suggest otherwise is dangerous to our institutions.” I’m a big defender of intelligence agencies but people like John Brennan are widely hated within the Intell…

I have a genuine question: why is it that left-leaning companies dominate media and/or nearly all other walks-of-life? I hear this all the time, but I’d like to know how it came about. I would guess, knowing nothing else, that companies would tend to lean right.

My guess is that it's about education levels. Americans with a 4-year college degree are much more likely to be liberal... and people with 4-year college degrees are, in turn, more likely to be decision-makers in business / academia / the media.

Re: Parler 'free speech' app tops charts in wake of Trump defeat

#122

Post by snarf21 » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 7:36 PM UTC

danpalmer wrote: post #26

I think that all these platforms: Parler, Gab, etc, will end up with one of two fates. They'll either fail to make it big and remain a niche thing for those trolls who enjoy the edginess, like 4chan and its newer alternatives, or... They'll grow big and end up having to deal with "trust and safety" issues when the majority of users on the mainstream end of the spectrum demand protection from those users who would oth…

It will fail for two reasons: A) If you want advertising, you're going to have to censor. B) People like to argue. If it is 100% people agreeing, then it loses stickiness. Might as well just watch Fox News. They need to see the "wrong" people for validation.

Also, there will be trolls that will push the envelop of what non censored can be.

Re: Parler 'free speech' app tops charts in wake of Trump defeat

#123

Post by zaphar » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 7:44 PM UTC

rusk wrote: post #116

zaphar wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that's too much effort to turn off a feature. I spent over a year trying to keep it off. To the point I actually scheduled a recurring event in my calendar to check and turn it off. I'll stick with tweetdeck until they support a real offswitch.

Does tweetdeck handle threads properly? I tried a few different 3p clients but found them all lacking. Just gave up then and just used the web client every now and again.

It does as well as the twitter client does.

Re: Parler 'free speech' app tops charts in wake of Trump defeat

#124

Post by RIMR » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 7:54 PM UTC

The most hilarious part about Parler is that they ban "content posted by or on behalf of terrorist organizations", which seems reasonable at face value until you realize that the admins consider "Antifa" to be a terrorist organization, and purge any content related to anti-fascism.

They also, until recently, had a zero-tolerance policy on nudity and eroticism, only compromising by forcing users who want to post NSFW content out of view entirely. This includes content related to LGBTQ+ people and sexual health.

Parler is not a "free speech" website. Parler is a safe space for right wing extremists who got tired of getting banned from traditional social media sites for posting hate, and who prefer an environment that is as hostile to minority groups as they are.

Re: Parler 'free speech' app tops charts in wake of Trump defeat

#125

Post by atoav » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 7:55 PM UTC

kemonocode wrote: post #106

My main issue with all these platforms supposedly being born to defend "free speech" is that they're a reactionist measure from certain ideas being deemed inappropriate by the common populace, so it's less about all kinds of free speech and more about protecting their speech. I'm convinced that no centralized platform is able to provide true free speech and even if it does, people should not be denied of the benefits…

There is at least a tension between those who want to say tough controversial things and those who don't yet dare to speak out their inner feelings and insecurities.

To construct a space that can handle both is probably impossible. Tough hard arguing has it's merit and value, but often it can turn into a contest who is the most stubborn, most convinced and least principled actor in the discussion. This kind of "war with words" scares away a whole other world of speech that could never happen in it's wake.

I am not saying that we should go without one or another, but saying a space for free speech is one where you can say controversial in a rough voice is not necessarily an indicator for the value of the conversations that take place. Think about HN: how would the conversations on here work without the restraint everybody shows by staying on topic?

Re: Parler 'free speech' app tops charts in wake of Trump defeat

#126

Post by finnthehuman » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 8:10 PM UTC

atoav wrote: post #125

kemonocode wrote: post #106

My main issue with all these platforms supposedly being born to defend "free speech" is that they're a reactionist measure from certain ideas being deemed inappropriate by the common populace, so it's less about all kinds of free speech and more about protecting their speech. I'm convinced that no centralized platform is able to provide true free speech and even if it does, people should not be denied of the benefits…

There is at least a tension between those who want to say tough controversial things and those who don't yet dare to speak out their inner feelings and insecurities. To construct a space that can handle both is probably impossible. Tough hard arguing has it's merit and value, but often it can turn into a contest who is the most stubborn, most convinced and least principled actor in the discussion. This kind of "war w…

>contest who is the most stubborn, most convinced and least principled actor in the discussion. This kind of "war with words" scares away a whole other world of speech that could never happen in it's wake.

There are many games people play in conversation. Nothing about preventing "tough arguing" actually gives way for "principled actor[s] in the discussion."

In fact, "tough arguing" is probably the MOST-desirable game, because it's the least disingenuous. The value of conversations can go negative when someone is using socially-acceptable bullying or just plain lying and manipulating. And the people using those tactics will leverage the norms of polite conversation to outright avoid/dodge being called out.

Re: Parler 'free speech' app tops charts in wake of Trump defeat

#127

Post by forest_dweller » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 8:42 PM UTC

Taikonerd wrote: post #121

thechao wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a genuine question: why is it that left-leaning companies dominate media and/or nearly all other walks-of-life? I hear this all the time, but I’d like to know how it came about. I would guess, knowing nothing else, that companies would tend to lean right.

My guess is that it's about education levels. Americans with a 4-year college degree are much more likely to be liberal... and people with 4-year college degrees are, in turn, more likely to be decision-makers in business / academia / the media.

It couldn't be because those colleges promote left wing ideas? I honestly couldn't tell you because I haven't been to one in over 10 years. However there is this idea that left-wing ideas are correct because those that are educated have them as if they came to these ideas because they are better educated.

I see no evidence of this at all. Most people who are educated at a University level seem to be just as misinformed as those that aren't about political issues.

The difference I find is that those that are University educated have a particular hubris about their political views whereas those that aren't typically don't.

Also poor (logical) reasoning doesn't dissapear because someone is university educated. They are typically better at defending their bad reasoning.

Re: Parler 'free speech' app tops charts in wake of Trump defeat

#128

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

doublejay1999 wrote: post #109

zaphar wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making an assumption that it's primarily about performative cruelty. But I would guess a non-trivial amount of them are just looking for a place where they feel safe talking about what they believe. Every slice of the political/cultural spectrum has it's trolls but they trolls are not representative of the general population. I may think much of what the other side says is reprehensible but I can generally te…

I like both points here. Twitter gets traction because professional trolls / grifters use it to build their personal brand. They are frequently newspaper columnists, authors, and TV pundits who benefit directly or indirectly from have a large number of followers (whether they following in agreement or follow out of outrage, it matters not). Sadly this is true of the left as well as the right; they are all selling som…

> Sadly this is true of the left as well as the right; they are all selling something.

citation for the "both-sides"-ism very much needed.

Re: Parler 'free speech' app tops charts in wake of Trump defeat

#129

Post by wow_yes » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

forest_dweller wrote: post #114

tyingq wrote: post #37

Do they really want just an echo chamber though? As I understand it they are catering to the far right. Some of the fun they have on FB or Twitter is probably arguing, feeling controversial, etc.

Parler isn't catering to the far-right. They are catering for conservatives and other right leaning individuals.

American centrists are far-right compared to the rest of the world.

Re: Parler 'free speech' app tops charts in wake of Trump defeat

#130

Post by Traster » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

iorrus wrote: post #79

tyingq wrote: post #37

Do they really want just an echo chamber though? As I understand it they are catering to the far right. Some of the fun they have on FB or Twitter is probably arguing, feeling controversial, etc.

This works both ways, by clamping down on viewpoints and banning people, Twitter will become the echo chamber.

That's not really true though. The viewpoints that are extreme enough to actually get banned from twitter are probably only those that the most extreme views. If you're excluding the 10% of the most extreme content that isn't really an echo chamber, there's still a vast space for discussion and disagreement.