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American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

zdnet.com

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Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#51

Post by addicted »

tuna-piano wrote: post #15
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #11

the 737 max is probably the safest plane in the world right now. like jack in the box was actually the safest place in the world to eat right after they were serving the ecoli burger

Would you have said that before and after the first Lion Air 737 Max crash prior to the Ethopian crash? Certainly a lot of people have spent a lot of time looking into a lot of the plane's systems. But are there more fundamental issues that can't or haven't been addressed? Those same people spent a lot of time prior to certification looking into the plane...

I don’t know much about airplane design. But if you told me that a software was so buggy that it was pulled out of market and then years were spent fixing the bugs in it, I almost certainly would not trust the resultant software more than I would have trusted a complete rewrite.

If aircraft manufacturing is anything like software development (and considering a lot of the issues in the Max are software related there’s at least some of that), this does not make me confident in the Max at all.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#52

Post by lbriner »

js2 wrote: post #35
deeblering4 wrote: post #23

I’m at a point where I just opt for carriers with Airbus fleets. I do not trust modern day American corporations nor the oversight bodies. There are too many financial incentives to cut corners.

For years after AF447 I was nervous flying airbus. In reality, it's extremely unlikely that you'll die flying. (I'd be nervous flying a Max too, but it's not rational.)

The difference with AF447 was that the aircraft at no point was defective, it was purely confusion on part of the flight crew and the issue with two pilots "in control" which the Captain absolutely should have dealt with.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#53

Post by Dirlewanger »

>The airline is trying to entice passengers to take a tour of the plane at selected airports.

This is just so sad. One, because American clearly thinks customers are stupid enough to think that this will assuage their fears, and also because the American public is stupid enough that this will probably work for some people

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#54

Post by phkahler »

phire wrote: post #17
tuna-piano wrote: post #12

737Max is certainly tainted now. But will that last forever? And do non-HN-aviation-geek consumers really care enough to check the model of the plane they'll be flying on, let alone make a flight decision based on the model? Certainly another crash could be devastating to the model. But was the 737Max a poorly designed death trap rushed to production or a super safe airplane with a single fatal flaw? Time will tell..…

Certianlly not just a single flaw. They found and fixed multiple other flaws while checking though everything for re-certification. In my opinion, the 737Max is probably one of the safest planes right now, simply because of the amount of scrutiny it's been though.

Well the engine placement hasn't been changed and that was the underlying problem that lead to everything else.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#55

Post by laurent92 »

deeblering4 wrote: post #23

I’m at a point where I just opt for carriers with Airbus fleets. I do not trust modern day American corporations nor the oversight bodies. There are too many financial incentives to cut corners.

Airbus’ problem is overinvesting on the A380 and getting rid of it.

Boeing’s problem is having integrated a company who was repeatedly found to have FAA collusion, and having repeated their schemes, resulting in their 2013 airframes and in their Max 8 engineering based on broken FAA supervision.

Comac’s problem is being the young inexperienced incumbent, but worth noticing with its Asian future.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#56

Post by aphextron »

Schiendelman wrote: post #44
outside1234 wrote: post #29

Does it matter? Nobody with any sense or care for their fellow human being should be flying now.

It’s not clear that’s true. Flying doesn’t appear to be causing covid to spread.

>It’s not clear that’s true. Flying doesn’t appear to be causing covid to spread.

Come on now. Just because we don't have peer reviewed scientific studies confirming the fact doesn't mean common sense can't apply. You're sitting in an enclosed terminal with thousands of other people from all over the world who may or may not even be masked, waiting in multiple lines with no social distancing, and touching an endless amount of common surfaces. It's spreading like wildfire at airports without even including the actual flight itself.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#57

Post by pera »

phire wrote: post #17
tuna-piano wrote: post #12

737Max is certainly tainted now. But will that last forever? And do non-HN-aviation-geek consumers really care enough to check the model of the plane they'll be flying on, let alone make a flight decision based on the model? Certainly another crash could be devastating to the model. But was the 737Max a poorly designed death trap rushed to production or a super safe airplane with a single fatal flaw? Time will tell..…

Certianlly not just a single flaw. They found and fixed multiple other flaws while checking though everything for re-certification. In my opinion, the 737Max is probably one of the safest planes right now, simply because of the amount of scrutiny it's been though.

Boeing whistle-blower says proposed 737 Max fixes aren't enough.

179 points by bookofjoe 50 days ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24543411

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#58

Post by phkahler »

atharris wrote: post #38
richardARPANET wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the plane is aerodynamically flawed by design. I'll never step foot on one.

Aerospace controls engineer here - while the airframe might not be passively stable (as is common for civilian aircraft), dynamically unstable aircraft have been stabilized with control software since the 70s [0]. If you've flown on an MD-11, you've flown on an 'aerodynamically flawed' aircraft. Most real systems are dynamically unstable without some kind of controller (implying software) in the loop. [0] https://en.…

Boeing has kind of a poor track record for software lately, from the Max to the SLS. Time will tell if this has resulted in real change.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#59

Post by lbriner »

chowndown wrote: post #19
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #11

the 737 max is probably the safest plane in the world right now. like jack in the box was actually the safest place in the world to eat right after they were serving the ecoli burger

There's a similar tenet for purchasing refurbished hardware. The supplier only wants to stomach a single RMA, so they will put in the effort to make sure the re-certified doesn't ever come back.

That's not true at all. All work is a trade-off between effort/cost and reward. The person refurbishing the equipment will decide how much work is reasonable for the amount of money they are making on it.

In an ideal world, we want to sell something that works perfectly and don't want any returns for sure but the truth is we never know its perfect and perfection costs money.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#60

Post by intricatedetail »

tuna-piano wrote: post #12

737Max is certainly tainted now. But will that last forever? And do non-HN-aviation-geek consumers really care enough to check the model of the plane they'll be flying on, let alone make a flight decision based on the model? Certainly another crash could be devastating to the model. But was the 737Max a poorly designed death trap rushed to production or a super safe airplane with a single fatal flaw? Time will tell..…

I always check that and choose carrier that uses plane I like.
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