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American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

zdnet.com

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Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#41

Post by LatteLazy »

tuna-piano wrote: post #12

737Max is certainly tainted now. But will that last forever? And do non-HN-aviation-geek consumers really care enough to check the model of the plane they'll be flying on, let alone make a flight decision based on the model? Certainly another crash could be devastating to the model. But was the 737Max a poorly designed death trap rushed to production or a super safe airplane with a single fatal flaw? Time will tell..…

How many people actually look at what plane they're meant to get when they compare times, dates and prices for their booking? Let alone what plane is actually at the boarding gate 6 months later...

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#42

Post by cpgxiii »

gruez wrote: post #30
NikolaeVarius wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But its not?

But it is? I think the parent was talking about: >Travis is unequivocal in his assessment of the Boeing 737 MAX. “It’s a faulty airframe. You’ve got to fix the airframe [and] you can’t fix the airframe without moving the engines” back and away from their current position. >The root problem with the engine-forward design is “once this thing pitches up, it wants to keep pitching up,” said Travis. “That’s a big no-no,”…

That article, and Gregory Travis' assessment, offer zero actual evidence that the design is unstable. Lot of hand waving and "the engines are different so it must be dynamically unstable" but no actual evidence, which is obvious because no independent engineer/pilot is going to be able to effectively assess the upset aerodynamics of an airliner and come to a different conclusion than both the FAA and EASA about whether or not the aircraft is dynamically unstable.

He's somewhat right on other details, but that doesn't make his assessment of the aerodynamic issues correct.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#43

Post by addicted »

ConceitedCode wrote: post #5
omginternets wrote: post #2

Is there any way to know what kind of aircraft you'll be boarding when purchasing tickets? I've never paid attention until now, and the 737-Max is definitely a non-starter.

Just curious, what would it take for you to get on a 737-Max? European and American regulators have gone over it with a fine tooth comb at this point and allow it to fly. There is always gonna be people that will say the plane shouldn't fly. Arguably the amount of attention this plane has gotten will probably make it one of the safest in the industry going forward.

At the very least new training for the pilots.

The whole thing has been badly handled. The FAA/EU agencies should have declared at the very outset that airlines will need to bear the cost of retraining the pilots who will be flying this. It was the attraction of not having to retrain pilots that was the biggest incentive for Boeing to pull the shortcuts they did. At a bare minimum the aviation agencies should have pulled that benefit away.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#45

Post by londons_explore »

phire wrote: post #17
tuna-piano wrote: post #12

737Max is certainly tainted now. But will that last forever? And do non-HN-aviation-geek consumers really care enough to check the model of the plane they'll be flying on, let alone make a flight decision based on the model? Certainly another crash could be devastating to the model. But was the 737Max a poorly designed death trap rushed to production or a super safe airplane with a single fatal flaw? Time will tell..…

Certianlly not just a single flaw. They found and fixed multiple other flaws while checking though everything for re-certification. In my opinion, the 737Max is probably one of the safest planes right now, simply because of the amount of scrutiny it's been though.

I mean it still only adheres to safety standards of the 70's by using a loophole in the regulations...

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#46

Post by [deleted] »

jellicle wrote: post #14
ConceitedCode wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, what would it take for you to get on a 737-Max? European and American regulators have gone over it with a fine tooth comb at this point and allow it to fly. There is always gonna be people that will say the plane shouldn't fly. Arguably the amount of attention this plane has gotten will probably make it one of the safest in the industry going forward.

I suppose it boils down to whether you have confidence in the FAA of 2020 to make a decision that would be strongly against the financial interests of Boeing and many US carriers. I think the Max will crash again. Excuse me, the 737-8 will crash again.

[deleted]

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#47

Post by ceejayoz »

bruceb wrote: post #40
tuna-piano wrote: post #12

737Max is certainly tainted now. But will that last forever? And do non-HN-aviation-geek consumers really care enough to check the model of the plane they'll be flying on, let alone make a flight decision based on the model? Certainly another crash could be devastating to the model. But was the 737Max a poorly designed death trap rushed to production or a super safe airplane with a single fatal flaw? Time will tell..…

This has gone beyond aviation enthusiasts. I think you will find a not insignificant number of regular people who are skittish about flying on a Max. Would love to know how many more clicks there are on flight details on booking websites once Max returns.

> I think you will find a not insignificant number of regular people who are skittish about flying on a Max.

It won't be listed as one.

https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-737-max-name-change-r...

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#48

Post by toast0 »

ghaff wrote: post #26
omginternets wrote: post #2

Is there any way to know what kind of aircraft you'll be boarding when purchasing tickets? I've never paid attention until now, and the 737-Max is definitely a non-starter.

The short answer is no. The longer answer is that you can see the planned type of aircraft when you book your ticket which doesn't typically change. But airlines can and do sometimes switch aircraft types at the last minute up to the point where you're already at the gate. ADDED: And I'm guessing things are more fluid than usual in the current situation.

It really depends on the route (and the airline). Some routes I've flown are scheduled for different types throughout the day; it's not uncommon to fly on the other type. As a bonus, different types have different premium rows, if you reserve a non-premium seat and the type is changed, you may keep the seat number and get a premium seat.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#49

Post by tachyonbeam »

wussboy wrote: post #6

This article was a seemingly randomly assembled collection of sentences and paragraphs, vaguely related to the plane and other travel inconveniences.

Was the article pounded together by an overworked, exhausted and underpaid reporter, or put together by some kind of summarization/content generation algorithm? That is the question.

Re: American Airlines Is Quietly Bringing Back the 737Max

#50

Post by NikolaeVarius »

gruez wrote: post #30
NikolaeVarius wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But its not?

But it is? I think the parent was talking about: >Travis is unequivocal in his assessment of the Boeing 737 MAX. “It’s a faulty airframe. You’ve got to fix the airframe [and] you can’t fix the airframe without moving the engines” back and away from their current position. >The root problem with the engine-forward design is “once this thing pitches up, it wants to keep pitching up,” said Travis. “That’s a big no-no,”…

Airfoils pitch up by default. Its how they work.

Aircraft are designed to not let that happen in an uncontrolled fashion. Software has been used to do this since the advent of computers in airplanes

Maybe we should also start boycotting A320neo's too

https://www.flightglobal.com/programmes/a320neo-also-potenti...

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