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The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

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Re: The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

#71
post #56
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK the idea at that time was to try to apply the Bourbaky method to teach kids elementary maths - e.g. try to explain the concept of sets before kids know how to add 2 numbers (I'm caricaturing but not that much - you had to explain to kids Peano before addition..). Someone else might have a better answer for that as I'm too young to know. Wikipedia French page on 'New Math' mentions it but not in details. > Is it…

French here : As far as i remember, I've learned set, intersect, include, etc when i was 11-12 years old, in 1985-1986. Seems to be 6th Grade.

When I learned set theory and relations for the first time, I was in love with the abstractiveness of mathematics. It was so intuitive and I truly felt that I've got the grasp of fundamental principles of maths. The sad thing was, we were introduced to set theory in Grade 11(17 years old), that's too late IMO, it should be taught around Grade 4.

Re: The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

#75
post #72

Where can I get their books? I badly want to read it.

1. http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=8F89864FED1AA4845F6...

2. http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=FD4A085FE66F570A611...

3. http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=3D0FD4F846B974F5188...

4. http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=2E63639FC0764A52560...

5. http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=881279B349E43D6BED4...

And so on...

Re: The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

#76
post #14

I have to admit that I did read a couple Bourbaki books. Or should I say “tried to read” because their texts are unreadable to put it mildly. They kill mathematics by removing the beauty of it and instead provide dry and boring texts that could be read by robots. Please don’t try to understand mathematics by reading Bourbaki texts. This is not what mathematics is about.

I thought that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and doesn't need to be forced down the throats of uncircumcised peasants.

Re: The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

#77
post #14

I have to admit that I did read a couple Bourbaki books. Or should I say “tried to read” because their texts are unreadable to put it mildly. They kill mathematics by removing the beauty of it and instead provide dry and boring texts that could be read by robots. Please don’t try to understand mathematics by reading Bourbaki texts. This is not what mathematics is about.

I would posit one can probably understand math without seeing "the beauty of it".

Re: The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

#78
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK the idea at that time was to try to apply the Bourbaky method to teach kids elementary maths - e.g. try to explain the concept of sets before kids know how to add 2 numbers (I'm caricaturing but not that much - you had to explain to kids Peano before addition..). Someone else might have a better answer for that as I'm too young to know. Wikipedia French page on 'New Math' mentions it but not in details. > Is it…

I'm Czech and this revolutionary method of teaching came here in the 90's, when I entered my grammar school. Probably, it had a political “east vs. west” motivation among others, shortly after the velvet revolution... The first thing I learned in the 1st year of schools were basic concepts of set theory. We were drawing circles, ellipses and Venn diagrams (even though we didn't call them like that) filled with images…

I think teaching sets like this totally misses the point. Finite sets are trivial (and pretty useless), so there is no use for schoolkids, it is just a waste of time.

Re: The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

#79
post #25
post #14

I have to admit that I did read a couple Bourbaki books. Or should I say “tried to read” because their texts are unreadable to put it mildly. They kill mathematics by removing the beauty of it and instead provide dry and boring texts that could be read by robots. Please don’t try to understand mathematics by reading Bourbaki texts. This is not what mathematics is about.

Unfortunately Bourbakism polluted teaching of Mathematics in Europe c.a. 1960s. With visible effects. Except for Eastern Europe were it was opposed by Arnold. > These discoveries of connections between heterogeneous mathematical objects can be compared with the discovery of the connection between electricity and magnetism in physics or with the discovery of the similarity between the east coast of America and the wes…

> For example, not only students but also modern algebro-geometers on the whole do not know about the Jacobi fact mentioned here: an elliptic integral of first kind expresses the time of motion along an elliptic phase curve in the corresponding Hamiltonian system.

This one resonated with me. At one point I had a problem that had to do with Kahler manifolds, but I knew nothing about them and only had some worked examples using basic ideas from Hamiltonian mechanics that I learned from Arnol'd's book. In hopes of resolving my issues, I spoke to some symplectic geometers and used Hamilton-Jacobi language. They vaguely knew what I was talking about but couldn't carry out any calculations.

I once heard an anecdote about Arnol'd that he came to France and lambasted the French mathematicians on a similar basis -- for all their writing, they couldn't carry out "simple" calculations with a clear vision (as once can when one has a physics motivation). It might have been the anecdote was referring to the Serre-Arnold debate -- thanks for that link.

Of course, Arnol'd has... high standards, to put it mildly. In his book, "Problems for children from 5 to 15", he writes in the preface,

"My long experience has shown that, very frequently, dimwits falling at school behind solve them better than A-grade pupils, since – for their survival at the back of the classroom – they must permanently think more than required “for governing the whole Seville and Granada”, as Figaro used to say about himself, while A-graders cannot catch “what should be multiplied by what” in these problems. I have also noticed that five year old kids solve similar problems better than pupils spoiled by coaching, which in their turn cope with the questions better than university students used to swotting who anyway beat their professors (the worst in solving these simple problems are Nobel and Fields prize winners)."

One of the problems is to sum 1/n^2 from 1 to infty (this is for children not older than 15, remember). Not only would I be unable to do this without modern technology (like Fourier analysis), I also find it amazing that Arnold writes: "prove that the sum is pi^2/6, that is, approximately 3/2", as though the approximation were harder (or perhaps more important) than finding the exact value. To me, that small comment really underlines just how hands-on he was.

Edit: I remembered a joke.

Why did Bourbaki stop writing textbooks?

They found out Serge Lang was one person.

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