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The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

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Re: The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

#21
post #14

I have to admit that I did read a couple Bourbaki books. Or should I say “tried to read” because their texts are unreadable to put it mildly. They kill mathematics by removing the beauty of it and instead provide dry and boring texts that could be read by robots. Please don’t try to understand mathematics by reading Bourbaki texts. This is not what mathematics is about.

I used Bourbaki as a second text in an advanced math course I took when I was at UC Berkeley in the early 1960's. I remember with delight the spare clarity of the presentation of the material and organic, intuitive organization of the topic. French has always seemed to me to be the language of mathematics, reason, logic (and love).

> French has always seemed to me to be the language of mathematics, reason, logic

For some reason I often find papers and thesis I read in French way more interesting, well thought and presented than most things I read in English. I have a few hypotheses on why I get this impression:

1) the publish or perish culture originated from the Anglo-Saxon world. Until recently the research written in the national language was kinda shielded from it. In Japan for instance, where the higher education is modeled upon the US one, master students are expected to publish at least a conference paper. In France students generally don’t publish anything.

2) the PhD thesis are written differently. Where I’m studying it’s basically slapping three papers together with an introduction and a conclusion. This sometimes leads to awkward thesis and shallow work. Thesis (and HDR) written in Europe are more like a very well structured monograph.

3) the way to use the language is different as well. In French, any intellectual written work will use long and complex sentences (sometimes to a fault) that are cramming few ideas and their relationships. In English the style is to write short sentences, with at most one idea each. I sometimes feel I have to dumb down my writing and splitting sentences while in my native language a Proust-like sentence would be more appropriate.

Re: The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used Bourbaki as a second text in an advanced math course I took when I was at UC Berkeley in the early 1960's. I remember with delight the spare clarity of the presentation of the material and organic, intuitive organization of the topic. French has always seemed to me to be the language of mathematics, reason, logic (and love).

> French has always seemed to me to be the language of mathematics, reason, logic For some reason I often find papers and thesis I read in French way more interesting, well thought and presented than most things I read in English. I have a few hypotheses on why I get this impression: 1) the publish or perish culture originated from the Anglo-Saxon world. Until recently the research written in the national language wa…

And yet the most impactful scientists, Newton and Darwin, spoke English, and the main way France industrialized was to copy developments in England.

Re: The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

#23
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> French has always seemed to me to be the language of mathematics, reason, logic For some reason I often find papers and thesis I read in French way more interesting, well thought and presented than most things I read in English. I have a few hypotheses on why I get this impression: 1) the publish or perish culture originated from the Anglo-Saxon world. Until recently the research written in the national language wa…

And yet the most impactful scientists, Newton and Darwin, spoke English, and the main way France industrialized was to copy developments in England.

Ah, yes. Newton and Darwin the greatest products of modern Anglo-Saxon education.

Re: The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

#24
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> French has always seemed to me to be the language of mathematics, reason, logic For some reason I often find papers and thesis I read in French way more interesting, well thought and presented than most things I read in English. I have a few hypotheses on why I get this impression: 1) the publish or perish culture originated from the Anglo-Saxon world. Until recently the research written in the national language wa…

And yet the most impactful scientists, Newton and Darwin, spoke English, and the main way France industrialized was to copy developments in England.

[deleted]

Re: The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

#25
post #14

I have to admit that I did read a couple Bourbaki books. Or should I say “tried to read” because their texts are unreadable to put it mildly. They kill mathematics by removing the beauty of it and instead provide dry and boring texts that could be read by robots. Please don’t try to understand mathematics by reading Bourbaki texts. This is not what mathematics is about.

Unfortunately Bourbakism polluted teaching of Mathematics in Europe c.a. 1960s. With visible effects. Except for Eastern Europe were it was opposed by Arnold.

> These discoveries of connections between heterogeneous mathematical objects can be compared with the discovery of the connection between electricity and magnetism in physics or with the discovery of the similarity between the east coast of America and the west coast of Africa in geology.

> The emotional significance of such discoveries for teaching is difficult to overestimate. It is they who teach us to search and find such wonderful phenomena of harmony of the Universe.

> The de-geometrisation of mathematical education and the divorce from physics sever these ties. For example, not only students but also modern algebro-geometers on the whole do not know about the Jacobi fact mentioned here: an elliptic integral of first kind expresses the time of motion along an elliptic phase curve in the corresponding Hamiltonian system.

Arnold - On teaching mathematics - V.I. Arnold, On teaching mathematics – https://www.uni-muenster.de/Physik.TP/~munsteg/arnold.html

The Arnold – Serre debate - MathOverflow – https://mathoverflow.net/questions/153604/the-arnold-serre-d...

Vladimir Arnold - Wikipedia – https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Arnold

Re: The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used Bourbaki as a second text in an advanced math course I took when I was at UC Berkeley in the early 1960's. I remember with delight the spare clarity of the presentation of the material and organic, intuitive organization of the topic. French has always seemed to me to be the language of mathematics, reason, logic (and love).

> French has always seemed to me to be the language of mathematics, reason, logic For some reason I often find papers and thesis I read in French way more interesting, well thought and presented than most things I read in English. I have a few hypotheses on why I get this impression: 1) the publish or perish culture originated from the Anglo-Saxon world. Until recently the research written in the national language wa…

> For some reason I often find papers and thesis I read in French way more interesting, well thought and presented than most things I read in English.

The much simpler explanation is that there are way more English as a foreign language PhD students than there are French as a foreign language PhD students.

Re: The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

#27
A group of contemporary Italian intellectuals set up “Nicoletta Bourbaki”, which is “an inquiry group devoted to the merry debunking of right-wing historical revisionism, history-related fake news and neofascist ideologies. [...] The group comprises historians, researchers in various disciplines, writers and activists. The collective pseudonym is a transgender tribute to the ensemble of mathematicians collectively known as «Nicolas Bourbaki»” [0]. The group published quite a bit of material about the manipulation of Wikipedia entries related to WWI and the Italian Eastern border, and other false historical memes being peddled online.

[0] https://www.wumingfoundation.com/giap/what-is-the-wu-ming-fo...

Re: The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

#28
post #14

I have to admit that I did read a couple Bourbaki books. Or should I say “tried to read” because their texts are unreadable to put it mildly. They kill mathematics by removing the beauty of it and instead provide dry and boring texts that could be read by robots. Please don’t try to understand mathematics by reading Bourbaki texts. This is not what mathematics is about.

The Bourbaki volumes are fantastic references for experts, and as with most reference books they are a terrible from an introductory/teaching perspective.

Re: The Secret Math Society Known as Nicolas Bourbaki

#29

I have actually heard of this group before, thanks to an obscure reference in a Twenty One Pilots song oddly enough: https://genius.com/15480382

I came here to see if anyone mentioned this lol This band has adopted the character of Nicolas Bourbaki in their concept album Trench. It's interesting since they commonly use the symbol Ø in their branding, which was introduced in mathematics by Nicolas Bourbaki to denote an empty set.

I also checked to see if they were mentioned! It’s interesting how a band can make you aware of something very obscure (outside of my domain, that is).
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