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How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

kevin.deldycke.com

21–30 of 259 posts

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#21
post #13

Are there any online resources on what is the most reliable and cheap printer to use long term? I'm thinking a BW or Color laser printer where the parts last a long time and accept cheap third party toner cartridges?

Common wisdom has been any Brother printer (for the past 20 years maybe). I have one and love it compared to my previous HPs.

I’ve had very good service from my HP3600N color laser. Economical, reliable, decent paper handling.

It was caught up in the HP driver security cert error of late last month (which makes me suspicious that it wasn’t an accident, but a reinstall of Apple drivers fixed it).

Economics here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24985405

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#22
post #4

How is this not something akin to an anti-trust issue? Fun story. I had a printer for a while, and then I just didn't after university. I don't print anything anymore. To no loss at all. It's either on my phone or I write things with a pen.

I'm sure some clever executive figured out they'd increase revenue enough before they were hit by a regulator or lawsuit to more than cover the subsequent apologies and announcement of their new firmware that loves free markets and customers SO MUCH that it accepts other cartridges again (but HP can't guarantee quality! So sad!). I generally print things on the order of single digit pages per year, but some people do…

> I'm sure some clever executive figured out they'd increase revenue enough before they were hit by a regulator or lawsuit

It's a pretty easy calculation, because they're not going to be forced to change anything. The race is against publicity and a loss of customer goodwill, not regulation. Who regulates businesses anymore for anything other than being owned by a Chinese person?

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#23
post #11
post #4

How is this not something akin to an anti-trust issue? Fun story. I had a printer for a while, and then I just didn't after university. I don't print anything anymore. To no loss at all. It's either on my phone or I write things with a pen.

> I don't print anything anymore. I wish =/ Most of the documents I have to print are documents to be printed, signed, and scanned again (or sent by mail - not email). Some (including my employer) still don't accept anything else than signature on real paper somehow.. Luckily I have a "re-purpose device" at home (a young child with a huge appetite for drawings), but I'd still like to avoid this waste.

Fun fact: on the receiving end they usually have complex systems in place to scan and process those documents back into digital format. And the people working with it pay good money to OCR those scanned documents to make the whole system usable.

This is sometimes referred to as the 'five monkeys with a ladder' paradigm [0] (not to be confused with the '5 monkey experiment'). It basically comes down to: we must use paper format, because we have always done it that way, though nobody knows why we still do it.

Having worked on a paperless accounting startup, I though that paper was still used for legal reasons. It turns out that (for most countries) this is mostly a misunderstanding. Digital documents are just as valid (if not higher level of assurance) as its paper counterparts. Many businesses still insist on the 'signature with a blue ink pen' thing, but again that is due to the 5 monkeys with a ladder problem.

[0] https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/6828/was-the-ex...

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#25
post #13

Are there any online resources on what is the most reliable and cheap printer to use long term? I'm thinking a BW or Color laser printer where the parts last a long time and accept cheap third party toner cartridges?

Common wisdom has been any Brother printer (for the past 20 years maybe). I have one and love it compared to my previous HPs.

I have an OKI C301dn.

What I like:

- Build quality and the low price, the thing is huge and weighs 22kg and I paid only 100 EUR for a new one

- Availability of cheap third party toner cartridges

What I do not like:

- Every toner cartridge must include a circuit board that needs to be replaced together with the cartridge. This increases toner cart replacement price by ~4 EUR

- Third party toner quality varies a lot even from the same seller it's hard to find a cheap supplier with constantly good quality

- After 7 years and about 3k pages printed, a white vertical line / streak started to show up on the printed pages

Based on recommendations here I guess my next printer will be from Brother.

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#27
post #10

Most of printer drivers are BS. I also bought a printer after lockdown, and had to spent hours to do research on the printer model that's interested me: Mac & linux compatible. The result is Brother is the most reliable and less BS than the rest printers. In the end, I bought a wireless Brother printer, and you can throw whatever cartridge in to it.

I have run a paperless business (and life, mostly) for the past 10 years. For some old-fashoned customers I always carried a Brother DS-mobile 600 portable document scanner in my bag.

The scanner was expensive, but really nice. And it worked perfectly with MacOS 'capture' application that existed on Snowleapard (10.6).

However, Apple removed TWAIN support in MacOs Lion (10.7), and Brother refused to release updated drivers. The only way to use the scanner was using the horribly bloated third party scanning software, that was basically useless for document scanning (but it did allow you to draw a hat on the photo of your dog!). Up to this day they still market the scanner as 'MacOS compatible'.

Ironically, my scanner is now an expensive paperweight. Which makes it double useless, since I have no paper.

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#28
post #23
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't print anything anymore. I wish =/ Most of the documents I have to print are documents to be printed, signed, and scanned again (or sent by mail - not email). Some (including my employer) still don't accept anything else than signature on real paper somehow.. Luckily I have a "re-purpose device" at home (a young child with a huge appetite for drawings), but I'd still like to avoid this waste.

Fun fact: on the receiving end they usually have complex systems in place to scan and process those documents back into digital format. And the people working with it pay good money to OCR those scanned documents to make the whole system usable. This is sometimes referred to as the 'five monkeys with a ladder' paradigm [0] (not to be confused with the '5 monkey experiment'). It basically comes down to: we must use pa…

it might be easier to bring a whole bunch of papers to the taxman when they call you to explain yourself.

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#29
post #4

How is this not something akin to an anti-trust issue? Fun story. I had a printer for a while, and then I just didn't after university. I don't print anything anymore. To no loss at all. It's either on my phone or I write things with a pen.

> How is this not something akin to an anti-trust issue?

It probably (if not certainly) is .. but with authorities systematically failing their duties on that subject, and for a long time too, don't expect much (if anything) to come from that.

The sad (and in my personal opinion: criminal) reality is that the (official) meaning/interpretation of anti-trust has been systemically eroded over the years. No doubt as a consequence of relentless lobbying (corruption?), to the point it has become pretty much a total farce.

One does not have to look far to find more examples of companies getting away with what should be punished as anti-trust behavior. HP is hardly an exception and don't expect anything to change. If anything, it might just get worse. By now, pretty much the whole system is designed to resist any change that isn't in favor of those who "invest" (lobby) into it.

Pragmatically speaking, the only mitigation here is to avoid printing as much as possible. It won't do much, and certainly won't change a thing .. but at least this criminal enterprise will not get a penny of mine.

Re: How to revert HP printer’s ban on 3rd-party ink cartridges

#30
I can understand HP wanting to prevent their customers from being conned into buying false cartridges, or wanting to ensure the best possible experience for customers. But. Is it not enough to bring up a dialogue or warning telling the user it's false and they are breaking warranty, rather than outright disabling the cartridge?

This seems like HP is acting anti-competitively, such that a third party would struggle to feasibly make a part for the printer. Reasons that a third party may make a non-official part:

* It's cheaper

* It improves on HP design (flaws)

* It offers some additional functionality not provided by standard parts

* They offer support past HPs official support, preventing contribution of e-waste

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