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McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

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Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#491

Post by Pyramus »

msandford wrote: post #216
thorwasdfasdf wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, oils are pretty bad for you but Red meat is a class 2 carcinogen. So, neither are good for you.

According to the WHO class 2 is "probably carcinogenic" and what was effectively a meta (or meta-meta) analysis showed that the increased risk was 18%. Do we know how bad vegetable oils are for people yet? Is there any reason to think that they're 100% A-OK? Humans have been eating meat for 10s or 100s of thousands if not millions of years. Humans have been eating highly refined vegetable and seed oils for what, a co…

> Humans have been eating meat for 10s or 100s of thousands if not millions of years.

This argument glosses over the crux of current scientific knowledge: We do not know exactly why the type of meat the (average) human eats today is net-negative for health _even though_ humans have been eating meat for ages.

Particularly, is it due to the change in nutritional makeup due to domestication, mass farming, processing etc. or is meat inherently (slightly) carcinogenic?

If somebody knows of recent studies, would love to learn more.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#493

Post by belorn »

Daishiman wrote: post #70
ttul wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder to what extent farming subsidies and implicit subsidies such as the under pricing of carbon emissions make meat burgers less expensive than they ought to be.

If you priced the externalities, plant-based food is an order of magnitude cheaper, at the very least.

I would very much approve a food tax on the externalizes, determined by a review process per product if the seller request it.

It would however not be as simple that plant-based food would just be cheaper. Every kind of food type has a spectrum of climate impact, depending on multiple factors like farming method, transport, and local factors. A hunter shooting down an overpopulated flock of wild boars is going to have a distinct different climate impact than a pig farmer in a industry farm. Same for crop rotating farm that don't use fertilizers or pesticides vs one that massively contribute to eutrophication, burn down forests to make room, and leaves a desert behind.

A tax would at first fix the competition between similar products that only differ in the climate impact. Secondarily it would encourage locally over imported. And third it would make most plant-based food cheaper vs most meat. It would also add a huge tax on factory farmed meat and encourage farmers to use slower and much less harmful practices when raising animals.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#494

Post by martinpw »

mike_d wrote: post #223
spacephysics wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so fast with the health talk. Vegetable oils are most likely carcinogenic, amid other health issues (GI, heart) [0]. Red meat is not [1] Further, these fake meats, Impossible Burger namely, have been linked to kidney failure in mice studies [2] (one commissioned by the Impossible Foods manufacturer). In particular: " * A rat feeding study commissioned by the manufacturer Impossible Foods found that rats fed SLH […

I don't remember the exact details, but the study found that after X days of eating Impossible Burgers mice suffered serious health side effects. So what did they do? Ran another study for X/2 days and resubmitted to the FDA.

You really need to have something more verifiable than that before just throwing around a claim like that. What study are you talking about? You could at least try and find a link.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#495

Post by calcifer »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #463
calcifer wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only sources I can find are NGO's with an obvious agenda. How is that a bad thing? Is the CDC untrustable because they have an obvious anti-disease agenda?

If they bend the truth to fit their agenda, then yes.

What evidence is there that anyone is doing that?

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#496

Post by cies »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #410
creaghpatr wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Godspeed to the marketing team that has to go to market with "modified e-coli".

Oi but is eating bacteria and yeast - a living organism - vegan?

Plants live, fungi live, bacteria live, and animals live. The differentiator is the ability to feel pain. Some small bugs (animals) already show no pain response, but most animals do. It is said plant feel pain, but that's a different kind of pain than pain in animals.

Vegans try --when possible-- not to cause pain on others, or reduce it as much as possible. We're against the commodification of animal lives. We (vegans) know that driving a car kills some bugs, and pests are being exterminated in the process of crop production: yet for most of us this is "not possible" to get around, for now.

But for most of us it is possible not to consume animal products, wool, silk, go to zoos or buy pet form breeders.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#497

Post by cies »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #413
MiguelHudnandez wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For your third suggestion, I'll take a shot: For animals to lactate, they must become pregnant. Dairy cows are repeatedly impregnated, they give birth, and they are separated from their calves. Female calves become dairy cows themselves, male calves are either made into veal or killed promptly. A small fraction may become studs for more dairy calves. The entire ordeal is very much not natural and not pleasant. And we…

Seems like giving lactation hormones is way more ethical than clubbing baby cows

Afaik not possible.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#498

Post by Fnoord »

no_wizard wrote: post #293
dandare wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The appeal of vegan pizza is that no animals were industrially farmed to make it. If you think your cheese is suffering free you are lying to yourself.

The reality is, the appeal to eating a vegan pizza to some is that they know it will be cruelty free, and I admire that, to be sure. However, if you want to win over the average consumer, or someone who has developed tastebuds over twenty years, or really anyone who doesn't already eat a vegan diet, you have to overcumb 1 crucial thing: It needs to taste good or better than whatever you are trying to replace. I haven…

New York Pizza in The Netherlands has a great vegan shoarma pizza containing shoarma by De Vegetarische Slager ("The Vegetarian Butcher"?), nowadays an Unilever subsidiary. It contains caramelized onions, vegan cheese, a garlic swirl, and tomato sauce. The shoarma contains the correct spices, and is salty. Crust is crunchy enough. Highly recommended.

There's also research into meat grown from stem cells. Right now it is still too expensive to grow, but I believe that is the way forward.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#499

Post by read_if_gay_ »

calcifer wrote: post #495
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they bend the truth to fit their agenda, then yes.

What evidence is there that anyone is doing that?

Yes! When has anyone ever lied, told only half the truth, misrepresented issues, or omitted important facts to push their agenda?

You really think someone would do that, just go on the internet and tell lies?

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#500

Post by cassteri »

markdown wrote: post #141
elif wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price of animal agriculture products is artificially lowered by direct subsidy, price controls, and indirectly lowered by the unaccounted ecological costs. It is largely a matter of policy rather than a reflection of market forces. On a level playing field, the cost competitiveness is there. For instance, in New Zealand, one of the largest dairy export markets, I can buy a vegan pizza for the same price. In fact,…

What is the appeal of a vegan pizza? Is it even pizza without cheese?

You can get vegan cheese that melts even.
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