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McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

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Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#471

Post by dsomers »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #406
_ZeD_ wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> I grew up on pizza in the NYC/NJ area. The Italian styles with minimal cheese are a disappointment to me. As an Italian the first time I saw a nyc style pizza I found it disgusting

I've been to many places in Italy and always prefer NY style pizza. Just because you invented it doesn't mean you've perfected it.

Classic American attitude of wanting quantity over quality. No, I don’t want to stuff my gut with a pound of low quality cheese that tastes like rubber. You do you America!

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#472

Post by realisticeater »

adtac wrote: post #360
realisticeater wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about because I don't care about it that much? Sometimes good food involves suffering. I'm glad we're at the top of the food chain. I'm not about to give up my steak, I'm not about to give up my cheese, I'm certainly not about to give up my foie gras. I don't think we should go out of our way to hurt animals (for example intensive chicken production where you have overcrowded operations where chickens stay in the…

I mean, if you see the footage of what goes on in slaughter houses and then still think momentary sensory pleasure (taste) is more important to you than the life of a sentient being, you're just a sociopath. Do you also believe it is okay for me to torture a dog just because I get visual satisfaction from it? >Vegans are so incredibly out of touch. really? lol ok

I'm fully aware of what happens in slaughterhouses. I would be more than willing to pay for more expensive meat where the animals have more space for them, or eat proper grass, as opposed to, let's say, having corn shoved into them and antibiotics to suppress persistent infections, etc. The meat is tastier that way, too.

> you're just a sociopath

Sure, according to your definition I would be. So would most people, billions of them.

> Do you also believe it is okay for me to torture a dog just because I get visual satisfaction from it?

Visual satisfaction? No. But if you want to slaughter and eat it I don't have a problem with that.

> really? lol ok

Yes, really. You come across as some sort of quixotean person yelling at windmills while most of us over here are just eating our meat. It's simply that people don't say it, out of politeness.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#473

Post by Pyramus »

simias wrote: post #338
dasudasu wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans might have been eating a lot more meat in the past when they were hunter-gatherers: it's just that their entire existence was centered around getting that food. Look at Inuits and how little plant based food they consumed.

Inuits are often used as a gotcha in support of meat-based diets but it doesn't really hold up to scrutiny. For one thing they're so often brought up because they're the exception, not the rule for human diets, their diet is a consequence of the very dire living conditions in the Arctics that makes agriculture impractical. For an other, their diet is not similar to your average meat lover in modern Europe or USA: a l…

Also from the same article:

"However, actual evidence has shown that Inuit have a similar prevalence of coronary artery disease as non-Inuit populations and they have excessive mortality due to cerebrovascular strokes, with twice the risk to that of the North American population."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_cuisine#Nutrition

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#474

Post by realisticeater »

sc4les wrote: post #416
sweetheart wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes good food involves suffering It never needs to. You're performing mental gymnastics, I'm sorry. It's never true that this sort of immense suffering just needs to magical occur for the world to operate normally. There are limitless delicious recipes that require 0 suffering, 0 pain, 0 murder. > I don't think we should go out of our way to hurt animals That's what the entirety of animal agriculture is. We g…

"I don't care but looking at pictures it doesn't feel right" yeah the classical it's-ok-as-long-as-I-don't-think-about-it attitude

Oh I've seen plenty of pictures and videos and whatnot. I've slaughtered plenty of animals myself (though never a cow, to be honest).

I'm not looking away and pretending it doesn't exist. I'm staring at it and saying "yes I approve of that because I like to eat animals".

If your argument is that intensive farming is less than ideal, sure, I agree. If your argument is that the solution to that is to stop eating meat, that's where you lose me.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#475

Post by apexalpha »

tluyben2 wrote: post #448
porknubbins wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a tradeoff made differently in the US/ Italy. The Naples style pizza uses “fresh” buffalo mozzarella which releases a lot of water. It has a nice creamy flavor but you can’t cover a thin crust pizza in it without it becoming soggy. What we call mozzarella in the US is actually low moisture mozzarella and one of its advantages is you can cover a whole pizza in it.

The 'soggy' is a part of the experience; not really disgusting soggy but definitely something you cannot pick up as a slice; the toppings would fall off. Italians eat them generally with fork & knife, but if you want, you can fold the slices 2x (sides to eachother like you would do and then fold the point into there as well and then you can pick it up by the crust). The basic thing which I have seen as big difference…

HAha what, Pizza is meant to be soggy?

I guess I'm a great chef then!

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#476

Post by realisticeater »

sweetheart wrote: post #384
realisticeater wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about because I don't care about it that much? Sometimes good food involves suffering. I'm glad we're at the top of the food chain. I'm not about to give up my steak, I'm not about to give up my cheese, I'm certainly not about to give up my foie gras. I don't think we should go out of our way to hurt animals (for example intensive chicken production where you have overcrowded operations where chickens stay in the…

> Sometimes good food involves suffering It never needs to. You're performing mental gymnastics, I'm sorry. It's never true that this sort of immense suffering just needs to magical occur for the world to operate normally. There are limitless delicious recipes that require 0 suffering, 0 pain, 0 murder. > I don't think we should go out of our way to hurt animals That's what the entirety of animal agriculture is. We g…

Who's talking about murder? I'm not for eating humans lol. This sort of phrasing is intellectually dishonest.

> That's what the entirety of animal agriculture is. We go WAAAY out of our way. It's expensive, inefficient, unhealthy, and immoral, and we do it anyway.

So are you against eating all meat or in favor of reforming industrial meat farming? These are two very different positions.

> It never needs to.

Yes I didn't say it needs to. I said sometimes it does. Foie gras involves sticking a pipe down a duck's throat and force feeding it until it has liver desease which makes its liver extra large and tasty. It is what it is. I support it because it's delicious. My taste buds are more important than a given animal's suffering, plain and simple.

I know I'm being blunt but I feel this holier-than-thou attitude on the vegan's side needs to be confronted with a little bit of "silent majority"-type viewpoints.

I'm not making controversial points, I'm spelling out widespread ideas to you.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#477

Post by lopis »

JamesBarney wrote: post #420
bransonf wrote: post #414

I always wonder what the vegetable vs meat market would look like without subsidies. Imagine a free market where the veggie burger at McD is $1 and the beef one is $5. How many people would opt for the vegetarian option? Instead, in the market which we have intervened, it’s the beef that cost $1 and the veggie burger $5. Obesity is driven in part by lack of affordability of vegetables and in terms of resources and po…

You are way overestimating the effect of subsidies.

Great video explanation on the subject from Minute Earth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZDsSnpYZrw

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#478

Post by ikt »

sc4les wrote: post #418
XaoDaoCaoCao wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think your life ia suffering free to other beings, your existence is predicated on forms of organization and governance which inflict massive suffering aka the military-industrial-logistics system which ensures the delivery of whatever you need from all corners of the globe. Move to a remote island if you want to be a saint. But don't posture to be a holy man or even more simply "a better man" by not eating an…

True. But for a start don't pay for dog fights and switch to oat milk, gets you 99% there ;)

Interesting article on Oat milk (specifically Oatly): https://www.jeffnobbs.com/posts/oatly-responds-in-defense-of...

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#479

Post by tigershark »

mycall wrote: post #405
dkersten wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Italian pizza has rather little cheese. I remember watching something once where the chef of a fancy pizzeria said that the most important thing in pizza is the bread: it should taste great without any topping. Then the sauce and finally everything else. I've had a great vegan pizza once and between bread, sauce and toppings, it tasted like great Italian-style pizza. Sure, a sprinkle of cheese would have made it…

The worst pizza I ever ate was in Rome. Nothing but bread and some sauce. Tiny too. The bill was not tiny. Nothing beats American-style pizza.

Nothing of the extremely limited options that you tried. It’s funny seeing people discussing authoritatively about things that they even admit to not know at all.

Re: McDonald's is adding plant-based burgers to the menu

#480

Post by tigershark »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #406
_ZeD_ wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> I grew up on pizza in the NYC/NJ area. The Italian styles with minimal cheese are a disappointment to me. As an Italian the first time I saw a nyc style pizza I found it disgusting

I've been to many places in Italy and always prefer NY style pizza. Just because you invented it doesn't mean you've perfected it.

I seriously doubt that you tried a real Neapolitan pizza then. Even in Italy it’s not that easy to find unless you are in Campania.
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