Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus • Hacker News Board

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#371

Post by m463 » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 7:31 AM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #113

areoform wrote: post #67

If this is indeed for a tax dodge, what's funny is that the US Government helped fund Google. Or, more accurately, they funded the research into the seemingly esoteric problem that became Google; > In 1995, one of the first and most promising MDDS grants went to a computer-science research team at Stanford University with a decade-long history of working with NSF and DARPA grants. The primary objective of this grant…

This is not a tax dodge. There is no way to dodge taxes as a US citizen by moving abroad, the US is the only country in the world with a real global taxation system. EDIT further information I posted below: The US has the unique position of being able to actually enforce this due to the fact the USD is the reserve currency of the world and every country needs to stay on the good side of the US Treasury to transact in…

You should look into leaving the united states without leaving the united states.

https://www.gq.com/story/how-puerto-rico-became-tax-haven-fo...

Also, didn't california just pass a CEO tax? Does it apply to him?

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#372

Post by ratsoman2 » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 7:33 AM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #368

ratsoman2 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Panama papers mean nothing to you?

For an American? They mean nothing. The list of Americans in the Panama Papers is extremely small, and all of them shifted their money before 9/11. It's simply not possible to do stuff like that anymore.

Thanks, I didn't realize what a small percentage the Americans were.

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#373

Post by a_bonobo » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 8:16 AM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #113

areoform wrote: post #67

If this is indeed for a tax dodge, what's funny is that the US Government helped fund Google. Or, more accurately, they funded the research into the seemingly esoteric problem that became Google; > In 1995, one of the first and most promising MDDS grants went to a computer-science research team at Stanford University with a decade-long history of working with NSF and DARPA grants. The primary objective of this grant…

This is not a tax dodge. There is no way to dodge taxes as a US citizen by moving abroad, the US is the only country in the world with a real global taxation system. EDIT further information I posted below: The US has the unique position of being able to actually enforce this due to the fact the USD is the reserve currency of the world and every country needs to stay on the good side of the US Treasury to transact in…

Could he retire from Google, take his money, and resign his US citizenship?

That's what Tina Turner did, she is now a Swiss national, she does not pay taxes to the US anymore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tina_Turner

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#374

Post by michaelrosmer » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 8:18 AM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #113

areoform wrote: post #67

If this is indeed for a tax dodge, what's funny is that the US Government helped fund Google. Or, more accurately, they funded the research into the seemingly esoteric problem that became Google; > In 1995, one of the first and most promising MDDS grants went to a computer-science research team at Stanford University with a decade-long history of working with NSF and DARPA grants. The primary objective of this grant…

This is not a tax dodge. There is no way to dodge taxes as a US citizen by moving abroad, the US is the only country in the world with a real global taxation system. EDIT further information I posted below: The US has the unique position of being able to actually enforce this due to the fact the USD is the reserve currency of the world and every country needs to stay on the good side of the US Treasury to transact in…

This in itself is not a tax dodge but if he wanted to this would set him up to be able to renounce his US citizenship and still have a good passport much like Edwardo Saverin and others.

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#375

Post by speleding » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 8:19 AM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #284

dundarious wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure Erich Schmidt has access to resources not available to your friends. There is absolutely the potential for a tax angle to this application, perhaps involving creating business entities in Cyprus to avoid the IRS's reach. That is of course just my suspicion and I could be wrong, but I think my suspicions are reasonable enough to dispute the strength of your claims ("There is no tax dodge. There is no way to d…

It's amazing to me how strongly people want to believe there's some magical way that rich Americans are avoiding taxes by hiding money in exotic locales. This was possible in the past for Americans, but it doesn't make sense anymore. That's the truth. The secretive Swiss banks and numbered accounts you read about in adventure novels as a kid are all reporting on US citizens now. It doesn't matter how much resources E…

Thee are other reasons to move local than hiding money, Cyprus is famous for agreeable estate tax. Seems a likely candidate given Eric Schmidt's age.

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#376

Post by michaelrosmer » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 8:20 AM UTC

dundarious wrote: post #251

pembrook wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a tax dodge. There is no way to dodge taxes as a US citizen by moving abroad, the US is the only country in the world with a real global taxation system. EDIT further information I posted below: The US has the unique position of being able to actually enforce this due to the fact the USD is the reserve currency of the world and every country needs to stay on the good side of the US Treasury to transact in…

I'm sure Erich Schmidt has access to resources not available to your friends. There is absolutely the potential for a tax angle to this application, perhaps involving creating business entities in Cyprus to avoid the IRS's reach. That is of course just my suspicion and I could be wrong, but I think my suspicions are reasonable enough to dispute the strength of your claims ("There is no tax dodge. There is no way to d…

Having a foreign citizenship doesn't change your ability to use international structures to reduce your taxes unless you give up your US citizenship.

It is possible to use such structures in some cases without needing to give up your US citizenship.

But there are plenty of non-tax reasons to get a second citizenship.

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#377

Post by michaelrosmer » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 8:22 AM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #284

dundarious wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure Erich Schmidt has access to resources not available to your friends. There is absolutely the potential for a tax angle to this application, perhaps involving creating business entities in Cyprus to avoid the IRS's reach. That is of course just my suspicion and I could be wrong, but I think my suspicions are reasonable enough to dispute the strength of your claims ("There is no tax dodge. There is no way to d…

It's amazing to me how strongly people want to believe there's some magical way that rich Americans are avoiding taxes by hiding money in exotic locales. This was possible in the past for Americans, but it doesn't make sense anymore. That's the truth. The secretive Swiss banks and numbered accounts you read about in adventure novels as a kid are all reporting on US citizens now. It doesn't matter how much resources E…

Yes and no. US taxes favor certain types of wealth accumulation and wealth accumulation over income. But US taxes aren't particularly good to the rich, certainly not by global standards and certainly not in many states.

There absolutely are sophisticated tax structures both domestically and internationally that do require a certain degree of scale to benefit from them, though past a certain point make less sense.

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#378

Post by michaelrosmer » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 8:24 AM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #337

atonse wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh what? There is no "the US government has more resources" – like it's a big blob. It comes down to something like the IRS enforcement division, which is consistently getting kneecapped with budget cuts. So no, actually it really is between your 15 high priced lawyers and whatever team of 5 people the IRS has working your case with limited time because they're stretched thin.

FATCA compliance issues won’t just get the IRS on your back. You also have to deal with the US department of treasury. The US treasury is not handicapped by regulation in the same way the IRS is. We’re talking extradition and jail time, not just having to pay back taxes. The Venn diagram of banks where you’d feel safe storing millions of dollars and that would also be willing to help you defraud the US Treasury are e…

FATCA doesn't create tax obligations it has nothing intrinsically to do with tax it has to do with financial transparency, which yes can help to catch people who are evading tax but if you're structuring your affairs legally FATCA has no impact on your taxes.

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#379

Post by michaelrosmer » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 8:33 AM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #299

dundarious wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure Erich Schmidt has access to resources not available to your friends. There is absolutely the potential for a tax angle to this application, perhaps involving creating business entities in Cyprus to avoid the IRS's reach. That is of course just my suspicion and I could be wrong, but I think my suspicions are reasonable enough to dispute the strength of your claims ("There is no tax dodge. There is no way to d…

Wouldn't he be able to form business ventures in Cyprus in which he could own a stake, but which would pay him very little taxable income? Furthermore, wouldn't he be able to grow those ventures and later take a distribution when his pals in US Congress abolish the "global taxation" nonsense? Or alternatively, by renouncing US citizenship? What other reasons are there to seek citizenship in a country like Cyprus?

He can set up business ventures in Cyprus regardless but that wouldn't help him much in most cases as he's then going to trigger all the controlled foreign companies rules and if he renounces his US citizenship he's over the $2 million asset threshold so he'll have an exit tax, I think it's highly unlikely he'll ever do that, though he might be setting up his family members to do so since under most of these programs you get citizenship not only for you but also for your family.

Someone in Eric's position will most benefit from the use of trusts and charities to improve his tax position.

But Cyprus citizenship has tons of other advantages:

1. Having an EU citizenship allows you to live and spend an unlimited amount of time in any EU member state vs 90 days out of every 180 days for a normal American so if he wants to retire to a beach in Spain for 5 months at a time he can't currently do so but this will allow him to

2. It gives him visa free travel to various parts of the world that he might not otherwise have, most notably Russia. If you're in Eric's position and say you want to do some business and investing in Russia the hassles related to travel might not be worth it for you and it makes it so much easier if you've got a second passport that allows you to go without issue

3. As mentioned you're setting up your family for a future with more options

4. You're creating a back up plan for yourself

Re: Eric Schmidt has applied to become a citizen of Cyprus

#380

Post by amai » Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 9:02 AM UTC

Too late:

"Cyprus is no longer a tax haven for Russia’s oligarchs"

https://infobrics.org/post/31529/

"The reason these politically connected people look towards Cyprus, and by extension, the EU, is because they fear their possessions might be at risk in their home country, Nigel Gould-Davies, a Russia expert at the United Kingdom’s International Institute for Strategic Affairs, told Al Jazeera."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/8/25/how-rich-russians-t...