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The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

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Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#51

Post by Rompect »

d33 wrote: post #26
lparm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually your speculation is a good one. From the book Why we sleep, by Matthew Walker, it's reported that teenager's circadian rhythm is different from the one of their younger siblings. It's shifted progressively forward, so forward that it passes even the timing of adults. This is something wired in their brain and should be addressed when setting school times. Moreover, Walker also proposes a socio-evolutionary e…

I feel obliged to point out that "Why We Sleep" has been discredited: https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/

Oh, thanks for the link. That book is/was on my reading list.

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#52

Post by fnord123 »

arpa wrote: post #45
fnord123 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ironically, similar thing happens to me, but sadly there is nobody to take away my phone, as time of this comment shows. You sent this at about 1330 Moscow time.

Soviet union spanned several timezones. The person writing the comment could have been in Vladivostok for example.

Vladivostok is UTC+10, Moscow is UTC+3. So 2030 if they wrote it by candlelight in Kamchatka. Still not really that late.

As the other responder said maybe they are in California but didn't give any other hints and left us this puzzle to work out what they heck they meant.

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#53

Post by lparm »

d33 wrote: post #26
lparm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually your speculation is a good one. From the book Why we sleep, by Matthew Walker, it's reported that teenager's circadian rhythm is different from the one of their younger siblings. It's shifted progressively forward, so forward that it passes even the timing of adults. This is something wired in their brain and should be addressed when setting school times. Moreover, Walker also proposes a socio-evolutionary e…

I feel obliged to point out that "Why We Sleep" has been discredited: https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/

Well, I've skimmed through your link and he makes some legit counterpoints. The teenager different sleep schedule is not addressed by the link so maybe true at some degree, but still, when there are so many errors one became skeptical. (This assuming this errors are true and they disprove many of Matthew Walker points, I have not looked at the article deeply as I said)

I am going to read it more carefully when I have more time.

(Jeez, it's really hard to believe something nowdays)

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#54

Post by ByteJockey »

bigbubba wrote: post #22
ByteJockey wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the wording of the post, I'm ~95% sure they meant exclusively football, baseball, and basketball.

Those can be done the same way.

They can, but in my experience (especially at small rural schools), the sports I was talking about get the "good" practice times (after school).

Any other sport gets... whatever doesn't conflict with those.

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#55

Post by chongli »

watwut wrote: post #43
chongli wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stranger danger happened because women in the suburbs went from being SAHM’s to working professionals. This turned the suburbs from villages (where there were plenty of adults around to keep an eye on everyone) to “bedroom communities” which are largely abandoned during the day. It’s one thing to let your kids walk to and from school when you know there are lots of other parents around. It’s entirely another thing wh…

How do you explain absence of stranger danger in non suburban communities and countries where women work? Women work not just in America and not just in middle class.

Read my reply again. I said it specifically applies to the suburbs. Non suburban communities are different. My comment does not apply to them.

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#56

Post by bigbubba »

ByteJockey wrote: post #54
bigbubba wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those can be done the same way.

They can, but in my experience (especially at small rural schools), the sports I was talking about get the "good" practice times (after school). Any other sport gets... whatever doesn't conflict with those.

I mean.. swimming didn't conflict with any other sport but diving, and swimming got precedence. We practiced in the morning because it was a good time for it.

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#57

Post by bigbubba »

sneakernets wrote: post #28
bigbubba wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If our society took a chill pill with all the 'stranger danger' fear mongering, we could simply let kids walk themselves to school, as was once common not too long ago.

Where do you live that schools are still that close? some schools are up to 15 miles away from students.

America. I used to walk two miles to school when I was a kid. That school got torn down years ago, but was replaced with another on the same lot. It would be just as easy to walk today as it ever was; there hasn't been some fundamental change in how communities are laid out.

School buses still exist too. Kids in rural areas can stand at the end of their driveway and board a bus without parental supervision, provided their parents aren't totally paranoid.

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#58

Post by vl »

fnord123 wrote: post #42
vl wrote: post #31

In Soviet Union and then Russia there was not enough school capacity. So schools worked in two shifts. Half of my school years I started school at 1pm. Wasn’t that bad, I actually preferred it. As for “natural sleep cycle” and “improved quality” I can tell you that this is self-made (or rather parent-made) problem in this case. If I take my children’s devices away at 8pm, then they go to bed by themselves after 9, ha…

> Ironically, similar thing happens to me, but sadly there is nobody to take away my phone, as time of this comment shows. You sent this at about 1330 Moscow time.

Fair enough, I’m in Seattle, ie Pacific time zone. So it was around 2-3am.

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#59

Post by animal531 »

iso1210 wrote: post #41
saargrin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lived in USSR till 1993 and never heard about two shift schools... interesting

USSR ceased to be a political entity in 1991, but that nitpick aside, it still happens in Russia. It's not ubiquitous but it's not rare - about 20% of schools > There were 13,100 double shift and 75 triple shift schools in 2007–2008 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Russia There's a UNESCO report on double shift shcools > In South Africa and Namibia, double-shift schooling is called ‘platooning’ – a term whi…

I'm from South Africa and have never heard of it. But if anything I think it's a great idea to make more efficient use of school funding, physical resources etc.

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#60

Post by ByteJockey »

bigbubba wrote: post #56
ByteJockey wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can, but in my experience (especially at small rural schools), the sports I was talking about get the "good" practice times (after school). Any other sport gets... whatever doesn't conflict with those.

I mean.. swimming didn't conflict with any other sport but diving, and swimming got precedence. We practiced in the morning because it was a good time for it.

I meant conflict with staff time.

At small schools, you're probably going to only have 1-3 members of staff qualified to train students (qualified is a very loose term here).

I suppose I could be mistaken about staffing conflicts. My small school didn't have a pool, so there really wasn't anything resembling any sort of water based sports (unless you just wanted to swim in a lake).

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