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The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

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Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#41

Post by iso1210 »

saargrin wrote: post #38
vl wrote: post #31

In Soviet Union and then Russia there was not enough school capacity. So schools worked in two shifts. Half of my school years I started school at 1pm. Wasn’t that bad, I actually preferred it. As for “natural sleep cycle” and “improved quality” I can tell you that this is self-made (or rather parent-made) problem in this case. If I take my children’s devices away at 8pm, then they go to bed by themselves after 9, ha…

lived in USSR till 1993 and never heard about two shift schools... interesting

USSR ceased to be a political entity in 1991, but that nitpick aside, it still happens in Russia. It's not ubiquitous but it's not rare - about 20% of schools

> There were 13,100 double shift and 75 triple shift schools in 2007–2008

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Russia

There's a UNESCO report on double shift shcools

> In South Africa and Namibia, double-shift schooling is called ‘platooning’ – a term which echoes a usage in the USA dating from 1920 (Kleinhans, 2002: 10).

> In Zimbabwe, double-session schooling is also called ‘hot seating’ because the school seats are said never to have time to cool down

> Double-shift schooling is most common in poor countries. Financial pressures in these countries are so severe that administrators are forced to investigate all ways to minimize costs. But all administrators wish to maximize cost-effectiveness. For this reason, double shifts are also used in relatively prosperous countries such as Brazil

https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000163606

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#42

Post by fnord123 »

vl wrote: post #31

In Soviet Union and then Russia there was not enough school capacity. So schools worked in two shifts. Half of my school years I started school at 1pm. Wasn’t that bad, I actually preferred it. As for “natural sleep cycle” and “improved quality” I can tell you that this is self-made (or rather parent-made) problem in this case. If I take my children’s devices away at 8pm, then they go to bed by themselves after 9, ha…

> Ironically, similar thing happens to me, but sadly there is nobody to take away my phone, as time of this comment shows.

You sent this at about 1330 Moscow time.

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#43

Post by watwut »

chongli wrote: post #36
bigbubba wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If our society took a chill pill with all the 'stranger danger' fear mongering, we could simply let kids walk themselves to school, as was once common not too long ago.

Stranger danger happened because women in the suburbs went from being SAHM’s to working professionals. This turned the suburbs from villages (where there were plenty of adults around to keep an eye on everyone) to “bedroom communities” which are largely abandoned during the day. It’s one thing to let your kids walk to and from school when you know there are lots of other parents around. It’s entirely another thing wh…

How do you explain absence of stranger danger in non suburban communities and countries where women work? Women work not just in America and not just in middle class.

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#44

Post by scatters »

Kbelicius wrote: post #37
vl wrote: post #31

In Soviet Union and then Russia there was not enough school capacity. So schools worked in two shifts. Half of my school years I started school at 1pm. Wasn’t that bad, I actually preferred it. As for “natural sleep cycle” and “improved quality” I can tell you that this is self-made (or rather parent-made) problem in this case. If I take my children’s devices away at 8pm, then they go to bed by themselves after 9, ha…

> As for “natural sleep cycle” and “improved quality” I can tell you that this is self-made (or rather parent-made) problem in this case. If I take my children’s devices away at 8pm, then they go to bed by themselves after 9, have a good sleep and ready for school. When talking about adolescents, which this study does, this is false since in adolescents the sleep phase is biologically delayed.

Biologically delayed relative to what? Circadian rhythms have to be cued off some external driver, whether that's daylight hours, mealtimes or whatever.

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#45

Post by arpa »

fnord123 wrote: post #42
vl wrote: post #31

In Soviet Union and then Russia there was not enough school capacity. So schools worked in two shifts. Half of my school years I started school at 1pm. Wasn’t that bad, I actually preferred it. As for “natural sleep cycle” and “improved quality” I can tell you that this is self-made (or rather parent-made) problem in this case. If I take my children’s devices away at 8pm, then they go to bed by themselves after 9, ha…

> Ironically, similar thing happens to me, but sadly there is nobody to take away my phone, as time of this comment shows. You sent this at about 1330 Moscow time.

Soviet union spanned several timezones. The person writing the comment could have been in Vladivostok for example.

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#46

Post by balfirevic »

saargrin wrote: post #38
vl wrote: post #31

In Soviet Union and then Russia there was not enough school capacity. So schools worked in two shifts. Half of my school years I started school at 1pm. Wasn’t that bad, I actually preferred it. As for “natural sleep cycle” and “improved quality” I can tell you that this is self-made (or rather parent-made) problem in this case. If I take my children’s devices away at 8pm, then they go to bed by themselves after 9, ha…

lived in USSR till 1993 and never heard about two shift schools... interesting

In Croatia most of the schools run in two shifts, with pupils switching shifts every week.

I would have probably died if I had to go at 8 AM every week.

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#47

Post by School-Cotton »

arpa wrote: post #45
fnord123 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ironically, similar thing happens to me, but sadly there is nobody to take away my phone, as time of this comment shows. You sent this at about 1330 Moscow time.

Soviet union spanned several timezones. The person writing the comment could have been in Vladivostok for example.

They could be in California.

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#48

Post by balfirevic »

sgdpk wrote: post #40
d33 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel obliged to point out that "Why We Sleep" has been discredited: https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/

I always see his site mentioned. I am not convinced about this criticism. The author is not an expert on sleep or a neuroscientist. The most you can say is that Walker has not responded to this criticism.

You don't have to be a neuroscientist to point out outright falsification: https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/#appendix-what-do-you-d...

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#49

Post by School-Cotton »

iso1210 wrote: post #41
saargrin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lived in USSR till 1993 and never heard about two shift schools... interesting

USSR ceased to be a political entity in 1991, but that nitpick aside, it still happens in Russia. It's not ubiquitous but it's not rare - about 20% of schools > There were 13,100 double shift and 75 triple shift schools in 2007–2008 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Russia There's a UNESCO report on double shift shcools > In South Africa and Namibia, double-shift schooling is called ‘platooning’ – a term whi…

It’s common in Mexico also.

Re: The impact of school shutdown on sleep in adolescents: a natural experiment

#50

Post by Kbelicius »

scatters wrote: post #44
Kbelicius wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for “natural sleep cycle” and “improved quality” I can tell you that this is self-made (or rather parent-made) problem in this case. If I take my children’s devices away at 8pm, then they go to bed by themselves after 9, have a good sleep and ready for school. When talking about adolescents, which this study does, this is false since in adolescents the sleep phase is biologically delayed.

Biologically delayed relative to what? Circadian rhythms have to be cued off some external driver, whether that's daylight hours, mealtimes or whatever.

> Biologically delayed relative to what?

Relative to humans at others stages of development.

> Circadian rhythms have to be cued off some external driver, whether that's daylight hours, mealtimes or whatever.

Yes, and our bodies react differently to those cues depending on our stage of development.

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