About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#341

Post by interpol_p » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 5:42 AM UTC

paultopia wrote: post #130

yakz wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can build on it... developers have been building on it for years and making money doing it. Don't make an app that allows users to run unapproved software. I think that's a pretty clear rule. If your app makes money (directly or indirectly), pay Apple whatever portion of your revenue that Apple demands. I also think that's a pretty clear rule. If there's something that should obviously be regulated out of existe…

But its absolutely not true that this is enforced consistently. My iPhone currently contains three full programming language interpreters from the App Store---one for JavaScript, one for Python, and one for Clojurescript. I know one of those can make arbitrary network requests because I've done it, and I think the other two can as well. So how is that different from iSH? Apple has approved a bunch of apps that can go…

This is a wall I have hit with App Review quite a few times

You have to stop viewing the apps from a technical perspective. App Review is _intentionally_ non-technical, as frustrating as that is for us developers. They enforce App Store policy from a non-technical standpoint

I produce an app which can download and run code, and was rejected many times through App Review. I was able to point to many other apps which _technically_ also downloaded and ran code — but the difference, to App Review, was entirely in the appearance (my code was text based, it "looked like code" and not like Scratch's visual programming, or nodes, or whatever)

I disagree with the App Review decision in this instance, but I think they are enforcing policy consistently. It just looks random to those of us with enough technical experience to look past the visuals and to the implementation

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#342

Post by fastball » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 5:45 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #158

Apple clearly does not want you to have a general-purpose computer: https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html Everything is done with "security" as an excuse because it's hard to argue against[1], but I think people are slowly starting to see through that. Apple wants to control every aspect of your life, and if you let it, it will. I wonder whether those who work at Apple and are responsible for doing such thi…

I think this is closer to Hanlon's razor than it is to "Apple wants to control every aspect of your life".

Big selling point for Apple products is privacy, security, and consistency of experience. All of these things are made easier by this policy (including applying to iSH). The cost is less flexibility / freedom.

Not quite Hanlon, but just replace "stupidity" in the original formulation with "unwillingness to spend the massive engineering effort required to provide both security and flexibility".

Though in all honesty I think that even with stupendous engineering effort, it will always more safe to just disallow certain actions entirely. After all, although birth control is a great way to not have a baby, not having sex at all is even better.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#343

Post by xnyan » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 5:48 AM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #150

mortenjorck wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is this: Do you want to build within a certain set of categories Apple unambiguously supports? If you're building a to-do app supported by a monthly subscription, there's no shifting foundation there. If you're building a free-to-play game whose in-app purchases consist of "handful of gems," "bag of gems," and "trunk of gems," you have nothing to worry about from App Review. If you're building something…

No, your biggest risk when building your business on iOS will be selling nothing, which is the most common result. So many people try and the expected outcome is nothing. People tend to like iOS better because the app ecosystem is better and it is that way because of restrictions. The restrictions aren't necessarily the exactly correct set to achieve the quality and profit apple seeks, but if they were all that terri…

> People tend to like iOS better because the app ecosystem is better and it is that way

I can’t speak for you but I know that I am prone (as most humans are I think) to project myself on others.

I use iOS because it’s the only OS that runs on Apple-designed mobile silicon, which is extremely good in terms of performance. Also (and this is not a joke) my partner hates green bubbles. You may be surprised how many people feel that way, which I personally think is kind of a shallow opinion, but it’s a real reason more than one person has stuck with iOS. Some people buy it as a status symbol because it is a fairly expensive phone, beautiful (imo) and apple advertises well. Some people can’t buy it because Apple has a great and widespread repair network. I know for a fact that a great many people share your opinion and buy iOS phones because of the App Store, that said I don’t think it’s safe to assume it’s the only or even the primary reason people do it.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#344

Post by monocularvision » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 6:07 AM UTC

js2 wrote: post #84

Apple won't allow you to run youtube-dl on your iOS device. Section 2.5.2 is just the excuse. If 2.5.2 didn't cover it, they'd make up another rule to do so. Apple isn't going to let people sidestep copyright on iOS. It doesn't matter whether youtube-dl or curl or wget have legitimate uses. If they can be used to sidestep copyright, Apple will ban them. I'm an Apple user. This pisses me off too.

I run youtube-dl using StaSh inside of Pythonista.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#345

Post by siraben » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 6:16 AM UTC

Update from tbodt on the iSH Discord:

@everyone We got a call this evening from someone who runs App Review. They apologized for the experience we had, then told us they've accepted our appeal and won't be removing iSH from the store tomorrow. We'll stay in contact with them to work out details. Thanks everyone for your support!

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#346

Post by saagarjha » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 6:20 AM UTC

Hi, Saagar from the iSH team here. We received a call from someone who runs App Review at Apple earlier this evening. They apologized for our review experience, telling us that they've accepted our appeal and that they will not be removing iSH from sale tomorrow. We'll work out the details with them in the coming days.

A huge thanks to all of you for your support of iSH!

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#347

Post by lmm » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 6:27 AM UTC

kimsant wrote: post #200

This year I build qoob, an app to interact with an IOT electric scooter parking. In August I had the MVP ready, we build 2 prototypes and could save and charge scooters of all voltages in office halls. The project is not my main job, so time is precious. I was asked to create a new functionality: Allow companies to buy and borrow e-scooters between company employees. But what happened is that I had to implement Apple…

> (and I can't leave apple, because I can't leave my users)

You have to. That's the only thing that will ever stop Apple doing this, if devs leave and users leave. Otherwise why would they care?

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#348

Post by xuki » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 6:36 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #346

Hi, Saagar from the iSH team here. We received a call from someone who runs App Review at Apple earlier this evening. They apologized for our review experience, telling us that they've accepted our appeal and that they will not be removing iSH from sale tomorrow. We'll work out the details with them in the coming days. A huge thanks to all of you for your support of iSH!

I’m happy for iSH, and I have no doubt Apple reversed their stance because the community has been so vocal about this. I feel for all the small devs who has apps removed from the App Store for similar reasons and never had a chance to fight.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#349

Post by sooheon » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 6:40 AM UTC

smnrchrds wrote: post #321

crazygringo wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you quote that 4 times? We're OK with the phrase because the alternative was people's phones being infested with malware and viruses. It's pretty obvious that's what happened. Apple built a phone you can let your whole family use without worries. Why are you confused by this? If computing is your goal, then an iPhone is obviously not the device for you. Fortunately for you, there are tons of other platforms f…

> We're OK with the phrase because the alternative was people's phones being infested with malware and viruses. Exactly! Next, I hope Apple will apply the same curation and registration requirements to websites if they want to be browse-able on Safari. Internet is a dark place full of scams, fake news, and privacy pitfalls. It's time to replace the open web with a curated premium web. /s

The Apple store does not replace any open standards, it is merely an alternative. Apple cannot and does not you from using or paying for open hardware and software.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#350

Post by saagarjha » Mon, Nov 09, 2020, 6:43 AM UTC

xuki wrote: post #348

saagarjha wrote: post #346

Hi, Saagar from the iSH team here. We received a call from someone who runs App Review at Apple earlier this evening. They apologized for our review experience, telling us that they've accepted our appeal and that they will not be removing iSH from sale tomorrow. We'll work out the details with them in the coming days. A huge thanks to all of you for your support of iSH!

I’m happy for iSH, and I have no doubt Apple reversed their stance because the community has been so vocal about this. I feel for all the small devs who has apps removed from the App Store for similar reasons and never had a chance to fight.

If this is you, we want to hear what you have to say: https://twitter.com/iSH_app/status/1325682737223643137. We'll bring it up with Apple on your behalf.