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About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

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Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#281

Post by echelon »

zepto wrote: post #263
hda2 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t want my non-technical family members being persuaded to install other stores. Frankly, that's not your decision to make. If they own the device, they get to decide. If they don't or are too young, then you can use various controls (i.e parental controls) to lock your devices down the way you want. This is a straw man.

It’s absolutely my decision by to make if they ask me to recommend something to them. Especially if they have been having problems with malware and that’s why they are asking. If they own the device they get to use it as it was designed to be used. They also have the legal right to change it themselves (at least in the US). What you don’t have is any basis for forcing Apple to design software the way you want, or to…

You can't make that decision for me and millions of others.

You're voting to make our industry inequitable and running software some Orwellian dystopia.

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple one day mandated that we hand them the copyright to the code we write. We're one step away from that now: we already have to write against a strict spec, fit all the rules, and are subject to arbitrary dismissal. They take 30% and leave us the crumbs. The appeals process is unfair. If Apple likes what you've got, they can just clone your app. One step away.

We're in prison and you're rationalizing about your parents.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#282

Post by cstejerean »

kimsant wrote: post #200

This year I build qoob, an app to interact with an IOT electric scooter parking. In August I had the MVP ready, we build 2 prototypes and could save and charge scooters of all voltages in office halls. The project is not my main job, so time is precious. I was asked to create a new functionality: Allow companies to buy and borrow e-scooters between company employees. But what happened is that I had to implement Apple…

So you implemented Apple Login and none of your users use it?

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#283

Post by zepto »

echelon wrote: post #273
nemothekid wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They've become their own banana republic. It's insane that you would compare selling a superior product on a largely free market, to a CIA-backed coup of a foreign independent nation. Can you please point to me to the people Apple murdered to capture their market? This is some incredible anti-Apple rhetoric. Meanwhile, in our currently implemented "open" platform you have engineers running amok with the personal da…

> incredible anti-Apple rhetoric And it's crazy you think that's wrong! Stop worshipping the device in your pocket and protect our industry! Apple is a foe. Living in their ecosystem is like living in a Communist dictatorship. Say or do the wrong thing and they take your app own to the gallows and kill it. Do. Not. Worship. This.

Do you own an Apple device?

Have you ever lived in a communist dictatorship or even visited one?

I have

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#284

Post by ksec »

zepto wrote: post #263
hda2 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t want my non-technical family members being persuaded to install other stores. Frankly, that's not your decision to make. If they own the device, they get to decide. If they don't or are too young, then you can use various controls (i.e parental controls) to lock your devices down the way you want. This is a straw man.

It’s absolutely my decision by to make if they ask me to recommend something to them. Especially if they have been having problems with malware and that’s why they are asking. If they own the device they get to use it as it was designed to be used. They also have the legal right to change it themselves (at least in the US). What you don’t have is any basis for forcing Apple to design software the way you want, or to…

2020, the new battle ground is now on how to define the term Straw man.

I am sorry this is completely off topic. But it is quite funny I notice the word suddenly gained usage, ( especially in any political debate ) and it is now sort of misused and misapplied all over the place.

( Not suggesting your or your GP are right or wrong in using the term )

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#285

Post by zepto »

echelon wrote: post #254
zepto wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not suggesting consumer behavior should change Apple. I’m suggesting that consumers should buy a product that that suits their needs. If you need alternate stores - buy Android. There is no reason at all for Apple to be forced to do anything.

> There is no reason at all for Apple to be forced to do anything. Apple impacts businesses, consumers, engineers - multiple industries - with their bad behavior. Apple has an illegal platform and it must be regulated. They've captured 50% of the United States computing market and illegally inserted themselves as middleman into every transaction, every software install. They punish everyone trying to do business and…

Apple doesn’t impact anyone who doesn’t choose to be impacted.

Nobody is forced to interact with them, either as a customer or a supplier.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#286

Post by ratww »

echelon wrote: post #279
ratww wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple impacts businesses, consumers, engineers - multiple industries - with their bad behavior Unfortunately the alternative is letting businesses and engineers impact the life of their own customers negatively. Developers had way too much power to screw up users for years, and they did: spying and tracking behind our backs. Mandatory rootkits [1]. Piracy Protection and DRM that did way more than advertised and cau…

This is such a red herring! It's just as easy to firewall your platform and prevent trackers. Open installation and privacy are not mutually exclusive. The browser is a firewalled platform. Look at what Mozilla can do for privacy on their shoestring budget. Apple likes it the way they have it. You cannot tell me the DOJ can't force them to open their platform and suddenly every Apple user is stuck on 90's era Windows…

A firewall partially "fixes" part of the spying/tracking, but doesn't solve any of the other issues I pointed, especially concerning forced installation of software that screws up with my machine.

Also, the fact I use a firewall doesn't excuse developers from being assholes and spying/tracking me behind my back. It's my computer, it's a developer's sacred right to have any kind of code that acts against my interests.

Please read the linked reply. It was a real issue, not an hypothetical. Installing software required by my bank REALLY screwed up my computer in the past, and I didn't really have a choice.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#287

Post by nemothekid »

echelon wrote: post #273
nemothekid wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They've become their own banana republic. It's insane that you would compare selling a superior product on a largely free market, to a CIA-backed coup of a foreign independent nation. Can you please point to me to the people Apple murdered to capture their market? This is some incredible anti-Apple rhetoric. Meanwhile, in our currently implemented "open" platform you have engineers running amok with the personal da…

> incredible anti-Apple rhetoric And it's crazy you think that's wrong! Stop worshipping the device in your pocket and protect our industry! Apple is a foe. Living in their ecosystem is like living in a Communist dictatorship. Say or do the wrong thing and they take your app own to the gallows and kill it. Do. Not. Worship. This.

No, the fundamental error you are making is you, the developer, are incorrectly assuming, that I, the user, cares about whether Apple lets you make money or do whatever they want on my device.

Even the way the worded your response you are making a plea as a developer to a user "hey take your app own to the gallows and kill it.". I don't have an app. What I do understand is; given the last 20 years of computing is that developers broadly cannot be trusted to run software on my device and I don't have the time to inspect the source code of every app. What I have decided is that I can trust Apple to be the gatekeeper to my device and if you can't play by their rules you won't have access to their official distribution processes.

If I, the user, decide that Apple isn't in my best interest then I'll switch devices. But I have no incentive to adopt a more developer friendly workflow when it's been broadly anonymous developers that have been sucking up and spying on me every chance they get. If some innocent apps get caught in the cross fire, it's unfortunate.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#288

Post by echelon »

zepto wrote: post #283
echelon wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> incredible anti-Apple rhetoric And it's crazy you think that's wrong! Stop worshipping the device in your pocket and protect our industry! Apple is a foe. Living in their ecosystem is like living in a Communist dictatorship. Say or do the wrong thing and they take your app own to the gallows and kill it. Do. Not. Worship. This.

Do you own an Apple device? Have you ever lived in a communist dictatorship or even visited one? I have

> Do you own an Apple device?

Yes.

> Have you ever lived in a communist dictatorship or even visited one?

Yes. I spent a year studying Chinese in Shanghai. My partner is from Vietnam.

What's your point? I stand behind my analogy.

Apple is a horrible company and is ruining our industry.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#289

Post by burnte »

zepto wrote: post #250
ethbr0 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who want a curated store This is a straw man. Support allowing users to add alternate stores on iOS devices. Having one choice is not freedom. And it has nothing to do with curration. If Apple's model is superior, then their app store will win against fair competition .

It’s not a straw man. I don’t want my non-technical family members being persuaded to install other stores. It is absolutely a feature, and a beneficial one at that, which many people want. As for Apple allowing people to install other stores - why should they? Why not just buy an Android phone if you want that feature.

> I don’t want my non-technical family members being persuaded to install other stores.

On Android this isn't an issue, you leave sideloading disabled. Apple could use the same method. Apple could even make you use XCode to unlock the ability. But locking it entirely is obnoxious.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#290

Post by arvinsim »

bigbubba wrote: post #15
cute_boi wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i thought termux is going to have issue in latest version of andriod? This is what we get from monopoly.

Well.. duopoly. I think we're witnessing the war on general computation being lost: https://archive.org/details/GeneralComputation

We are losing the war because those who are supposed to fight for general computing are ceding ground to the duopoly due to a myriad of reasons(convenience, "security", ease of use, etc)
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