Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S. • Hacker News Board

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#491

Post by twodave » Sat, Nov 07, 2020, 9:07 PM UTC

lovecg wrote: post #124

Can we have a conversation about broader implications of the increasing power in the public discourse of Twitter et al.? I’m no Trump supporter but I do wonder if the tables were turned and Twitter e.g. turned Biden’s page into a wall of hidden tweets because of something it disagreed with (there are enough grievances with Big Tech from both sides). Do people think this is isolated (because Trump is, well, Trump) or…

I wonder how much public opinion was impacted by Trump's tweets (one way or the other). I also wonder the magnitude of the impact of Twitter's actions. I sort of also wonder why some public figures are subject to fact checking and others are not.

Censoring really ought to be driven by the individual, not the platform. By getting involved in censoring certain parties, Twitter is implying here (whether intentionally or not) that its platform is a source of truth. That's a horrifying notion on its own. If anything my trust in Twitter (what little I had) is basically gone. It has nothing to do with politics. The minute a social media platform starts meddling with user content (especially the content of public figures, especially especially the current POTUS, whoever he is), I no longer believe anything I see on the platform.

It's hard enough to know what to believe without questioning the authenticity of people's statements.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#492

Post by libraryatnight » Sat, Nov 07, 2020, 9:07 PM UTC

I don't think I realized just how much this was wearing on me. I know there's steps to go before this is irrefutable, but the weight lifted is palpable and I didn't really think it would be given how many troubles we still face. I sincerely hope this is a step towards a healthier country. And for those that did not like Trump, but weren't thrilled with Biden, I hope Biden is a stepping stone towards even better candidates.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#493

Post by rhacker » Sat, Nov 07, 2020, 9:07 PM UTC

throwaway201103 wrote: post #411

To me what this election (as well as the 2016 election) illustrates, is what a poor set of choices we have had. In no sane world should it have been difficult for the Democrats to defeat Donald Trump in 2016. He had no history in political office, and he lost the popular vote to just about the worst candidate the Democrats could have put up. Had the Democrats put up anyone who was less divisive than Hillary Clinton t…

Meh, we've had lots of unexciting presidents in the past. In my own lifetime the only president I was ever actually excited about was Obama. I think the only thing that does eclipse that excitement IS not having Trump anymore. I disagree with the notion that we need to be excited about a president in general because that's what GOT us Trump. The president should be boring, and move the country forward like a normal, boring job. I yearn for a president that might pop up every 45 days (oh yeah he's the president and he's doing something). Instead of what we just had.

With Trump I feel like we dangerously moved towards having super celebrity presidents that are more interested in being King. I don't think the US should have a King. It should have someone that "PRESIDES" over governments boring ass functions.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#494

Post by johndevor » Sat, Nov 07, 2020, 9:07 PM UTC

jimnotgym wrote: post #479

Please permit me a ramble, there are too many points to fit in a hn box and I'm typing on a phone. I'm sure our stateside friends would be happy to acknowledge that US politics has a major effect on the whole world. I have had it pointed out to me before, however, that the USA can vote in whomever they please, and it is none of our business. But American companies sell us our books and films (understatement), take cu…

> But American companies sell us our books and films (understatement), take cuts of our credit card payments, make us coffee, organize our taxis. All of this seems to be with preferential tax treatment. All of these things could be done without the US, but the US is our partner in peace, so it is tolerated.

Are you implying that America is exporting more than it imports from the EU? The US actually has a trade deficit with Europe.

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0003.html

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#495

Post by sp527 » Sat, Nov 07, 2020, 9:07 PM UTC

throwaway201103 wrote: post #411

To me what this election (as well as the 2016 election) illustrates, is what a poor set of choices we have had. In no sane world should it have been difficult for the Democrats to defeat Donald Trump in 2016. He had no history in political office, and he lost the popular vote to just about the worst candidate the Democrats could have put up. Had the Democrats put up anyone who was less divisive than Hillary Clinton t…

Democrats can only win at the margin of the electoral college. That margin is not progressive. The coastal Democratic strongholds are always going to vote blue. It makes absolutely no sense to adopt their platform.

Political game theory favors appealing to the margin and the margin is moderate. The margin doesn’t take an extreme stance on social issues a la San Francisco. Quite the opposite: they hear things like “defund the police” and liberals shouting down “all lives matter” and they feel rightfully as if Democrats are threatening their place in society. The progressive politics of exclusion and contempt are totally unfit to the task of winning the electorate just as much as the equivalent conservative extreme.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#496

Post by pjc50 » Sat, Nov 07, 2020, 9:08 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #327

Being a centrist, I can definitely understand the desire for more conservative policies, and a rejection of more liberal policies. What has been tough for me personally, though, is to see a person as amoral as Trump get so much support. I DO agree that Trump has done some good things, things that before him neither the left nor the right was willing to do in a substantial way (mainly his forcing a re-evaluation of ou…

> left tries to mend their ways by refraining from pushing (mainly white, straight men, but also others, like the religious) many further from the Democratic party.

Genuine question: how can this be done without giving up on the people who don't match that description?

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#497

Post by js2 » Sat, Nov 07, 2020, 9:08 PM UTC

throwaway201103 wrote: post #411

To me what this election (as well as the 2016 election) illustrates, is what a poor set of choices we have had. In no sane world should it have been difficult for the Democrats to defeat Donald Trump in 2016. He had no history in political office, and he lost the popular vote to just about the worst candidate the Democrats could have put up. Had the Democrats put up anyone who was less divisive than Hillary Clinton t…

> nobody I have talked to seriously voted for Joe Biden on his own merits.

Okay, I did, so you can't say that anymore. I didn't vote for him in the primary, but I voted for him in the general. There's good stuff here:

https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/

He's a centrist. I expect him to be right in the middle of the Democratic party. It's not as bold as I would like in some places and has things I don't like in others, but it's progress. It's substantive policy proposals to try to make headway on climate change, healthcare, covid19, jobs, and on and on.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#498

Post by _iyig » Sat, Nov 07, 2020, 9:08 PM UTC

jimnotgym wrote: post #479

Please permit me a ramble, there are too many points to fit in a hn box and I'm typing on a phone. I'm sure our stateside friends would be happy to acknowledge that US politics has a major effect on the whole world. I have had it pointed out to me before, however, that the USA can vote in whomever they please, and it is none of our business. But American companies sell us our books and films (understatement), take cu…

> And then came Trump, telling us that we don't spend enough on Nato

Trump said it loudly and in plain terms, but this is a popular bipartisan view in the US. It is a fact that many wealthy NATO members do not meet the defense spending commitments that membership entails. Obama pressured NATO members to meet their obligations, and Biden will likely do so as well.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/obama-nato-pay-fair-s...

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#499

Post by anonu » Sat, Nov 07, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

jonhohle wrote: post #123

softwaredoug wrote: post #81

On the data nerd side I continue to be shocked at how people misinterpret the certainty of polls/forecasts. Forecasts give us probability distributions based on historical polling error data. Not infallible predictions the expected value will 100% happen. It’s fairly revealing of society’s general innumeracy, just as it was 4 years ago when Trump won.

But the polls then and now weren’t just bad, they were shockingly bad and not representative of any real population that matters in an election. I’d expect something like this from junior engineers looking at metrics for the first time, but these are supposedly the most respective organizations in their field that have failed spectacularly for the second presidential election in a row. What value do they possibly ser…

It might be representative... It's just that people didn't want to say they're voting for trump.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#500

Post by natchy » Sat, Nov 07, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

throwaway201103 wrote: post #411

To me what this election (as well as the 2016 election) illustrates, is what a poor set of choices we have had. In no sane world should it have been difficult for the Democrats to defeat Donald Trump in 2016. He had no history in political office, and he lost the popular vote to just about the worst candidate the Democrats could have put up. Had the Democrats put up anyone who was less divisive than Hillary Clinton t…

I was hoping for the Dem ticket that had a more anti-establishment leaning. Biden isn't a nemesis to big-tech like Trump is. He's an established politician who served while the Patriot act was in place. Seems scarier to me for increased surveillance and censorship.