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Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

arstechnica.com

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Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#131

Post by hourislate »

gravypod wrote: post #4

Could this be a situation where politicians have faulty data and use that to guide how they act? I would have assumed that a majority of these states - and my home state of NJ - would be very anti-drug but these votes with >60% in favor of legalization show that significant portions of America think drug-related activities are not "immoral" or "wrong" and should not be criminalized. If you had asked me a few years ag…

The only data Politicians use is campaign donation data.

When you have several different industries that rely on a steady flow of meat into the grinder (Prison, Police Unions, Lawyers, Probation Officers/Administrative, etc) and they give generous support and campaign donations , well you know why it has taken so long to end this useless "War on Drugs". Millions of Tax dollars were spent incarcerating people for having a $20 of drugs on them. It is beyond fucking insane destroying the life of a 18 year old over a joint or sending someone away for life (3 strikes and your out) for a few dollars of weed.

I don't use but I don't want to see a single penny of my tax dollars spent on destroying the lives of users. Unfortunately in my State (TX), the Industries I mentioned above are the ones making decisions for the Politicians and not the voters.

The only way to fix this is to legalize it all and treat the folks who require help.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#132

Post by idoh »

heavyset_go wrote: post #120
michaelcampbell wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a lot of money, and plenty of high-paying jobs with full pensions, that are kept afloat by the criminalization of drugs. This is the heart of it.

There's a reason that my local PBA is losing their minds over the potential for drugs like marijuana becoming legal, and it isn't because marijuana is harmful. It's because 60% of the town's budget goes to funding law enforcement salaries, benefits and pensions, and the majority of arrests in this area are for marijuana possession.

PBA = police officers’ union (for those like me who didn’t know)

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#133

Post by wombatmobile »

heavyset_go wrote: post #120
michaelcampbell wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a lot of money, and plenty of high-paying jobs with full pensions, that are kept afloat by the criminalization of drugs. This is the heart of it.

There's a reason that my local PBA is losing their minds over the potential for drugs like marijuana becoming legal, and it isn't because marijuana is harmful. It's because 60% of the town's budget goes to funding law enforcement salaries, benefits and pensions, and the majority of arrests in this area are for marijuana possession.

But does it necessarily follow that law enforcement budgets will be cut if weed is legalised?

Ideally, how might the budget be reconfigured constructively with the same dollar amount to make a better community?

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#134

Post by crispyporkbites »

supernova87a wrote: post #97
intricatedetail wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you want to discuss? People have natural urge to use drugs and there is nothing you can do about it apart from trying to educate and ensure drugs are as safe as possible. Banning drugs is an idea of the same sort like banning music or sex for pleasure. Cartels make money on drug supply, because there is mostly no one else people can buy drugs from.

I agree that the war on drugs was a failure. But is your position that whatever people want to do, you should not try to prevent it? What are your positions on applying that logic to carbon emissions, letting people work for less than minimum wage, companies putting out products that people buy willingly but are non-repairable? Should government step out of those areas too? People want to do all those things.

Those things have large negative externalities that the individual doesn’t pay for.

Drugs don’t really have that- unless you make them high cost and illegal.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#135

Post by Ericson2314 »

bluedino wrote: post #70
devenblake wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of existing drug laws in America is to give police the means to harass minorities though. See: https://archive.attn.com/stories/1503/war-on-drugs-real-reas... https://www.huffpost.com/entry/real-reasons-marijuana-is-ban... http://www.history.com/news/why-the-u-s-made-marijuana-illeg... https://www.salon.com/2015/07/02/the_real_reason_marijuana_i... (though this one pretty much reiterates the attn article)…

So what’s the purpose of them in Japan?

It's unclear what purpose they serve in Japan. That doesn't make it less clear in the US.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#136

Post by crispyporkbites »

jimbob45 wrote: post #122

Isn’t Seattle in shambles because they no longer arrest drug users? I know that this stuff seems like a good idea when it’s theoretical and it doesn’t happen near you but when it’s your neighbor doing heroin and the police won’t do anything about it, you start to wish that drug use wasn’t so normalized. I used to live in Salem. Used to be extremely crime-free with very few homeless. Now, they line the streets of down…

Define “shambles” and “line the streets” without using hyperbole.

Don’t build straw men “your neighbour”

Clearly link your alleged increase in crime and demographic change to drug policy

Otherwise this is not an argument.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#137

Post by jniedrauer »

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #6

> Cannabis has been rebranded as a wellness panacea. Mushrooms and MDMA are making headlines as therapy tools, not party fuel. Man, these guys are late to the party. Alcohol works great for treating symptoms of stress, too! Can't be stressed, anxious, or depressed if I'm blitzed out of my mind!

Anecdotal, but alcohol is one of the more harmful drugs. I can't even drink a little bit now that I run semi-seriously. One or two glasses of wine completely throws off my body for the next 24 hours, and increases the risk for injuries. It's just not worth it.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#138

Post by o_class_star »

The problem we have on the Left is that even though 65% of the American population prefers our ideas (when stripped of D/R labels) they don't really like us. We're not very good at branding, and we've let Capital convince half the country that it's actually a "liberal elite" that is holding them down.

We need to get better at getting our actual message out there. The recent victory is a start, but if it were down to ideas rather than personality politics (and, you know, other stuff the other side uses) we'd be up by 20 points in every state.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#139

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

masklinn wrote: post #64
refurb wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada had very harsh drug laws too (at least for hard drugs). And so did much of Europe. Did all those countries also create those laws to harass certain populations?

How many did basically at the behest of the US? The US very much lead the crusade on drugs criminalisation after WWII.

All of them, it's part of the founding UN treaties, as far as I know.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#140

Post by draw_down »

supernova87a wrote: post #38

I'm not sure why people aren't being just a little more cautious about ballot measures like in Oregon where even heroin and such hard drugs are now decriminalized. This deserves a little more consideration about the unintended side effects of this policy, don't you think? I look at the massive illegal drug manufacturing interests (countries, cartels) who spend vast sums on getting illegal drugs to our shores. It cann…

Yeah, if we’re not careful about our drug laws, America could develop some issue or maybe some kind of gigantic horrific problem with drugs. Would be a shame
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