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Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

arstechnica.com

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Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#111
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Planned Parenthood was the work of Margaret Sanger, who was a feminist who believed in reproductive choice and free speech; she was repeatedly arrested because distributing knowledge of contraception violated the Comstock Act.

Margret Sanger was a eugenicist.

This is unfortunately true. Does not imply that the current organization is, though.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#112
post #4

Could this be a situation where politicians have faulty data and use that to guide how they act? I would have assumed that a majority of these states - and my home state of NJ - would be very anti-drug but these votes with >60% in favor of legalization show that significant portions of America think drug-related activities are not "immoral" or "wrong" and should not be criminalized. If you had asked me a few years ag…

I suspect it’s not just about what people think, it’s also about how strongly they feel about it, for it to override other factors when voting.

I suspect that a lot of people who on balance support legalisation, don’t feel so strongly about it that they won’t vote for someone that opposes it. Conversely I think a lot of people who oppose legalisation feel about it strongly enough that they just won’t vote for someone who supports it. Politicians are probably well aware of this.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#113
post #59
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP's comment can of course be read more correctly as "the purpose of existing drug laws (in the US) , ..."

Sweden has harsh drug laws too. So does China. The point is that there are other reasons people favor drug laws, since many homogenous countries have them too.

And yet the literal tons of fentanyl and fentanyl derivatives that are swamping black markets in the US and killing thousands are almost exclusively manufactured in China and shipped to the US.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#114
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada had very harsh drug laws too (at least for hard drugs). And so did much of Europe. Did all those countries also create those laws to harass certain populations?

In many cases yes: European attitudes towards the lower classes are often similar to (though not as extreme as) racist attitudes in the US.

Lots of European countries (and probably the rest of the world) also copy US laws for no apparent reason.

More or less everyone I know has tried drugs (MJ, magic mushrooms, LSD) or does them on a regular basis, but I don't know anyone who's ever been arrested over it. What I'm saying is there doesn't seem to be (much) of a stigma against drugs, neither with the population, nor with the cops. Nevertheless, MJ is illegal, and the protests for legalization started soon after the ones in the US.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#115
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The war on drugs was started as a way to target people of color by Nixon So was Planned Parenthood. Instead of endlessly prosecuting the past, which can never change, let's look at today and tomorrow instead. Or, if you prefer, we could look at the exact opposite approach- the Opium wars were fought to force China to allow the sale and consumption of opium, the extensive use of which was practically epidemic. As su…

Planned Parenthood was the work of Margaret Sanger, who was a feminist who believed in reproductive choice and free speech; she was repeatedly arrested because distributing knowledge of contraception violated the Comstock Act.

[deleted]

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#116

I'm not sure why people aren't being just a little more cautious about ballot measures like in Oregon where even heroin and such hard drugs are now decriminalized. This deserves a little more consideration about the unintended side effects of this policy, don't you think? I look at the massive illegal drug manufacturing interests (countries, cartels) who spend vast sums on getting illegal drugs to our shores. It cann…

This is full-on concern trolling.

What makes you think the policy hasn't been fully considered over many decades?

Does a policy have to be pure good, or just better than the alternative?

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#117
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Margret Sanger was a eugenicist.

This is unfortunately true. Does not imply that the current organization is, though.

That was entirely my original point- that the war on drugs may have been started with ill intent 50 years ago should not have bearing on today's policy decisions.

Whether we legalize or not, whether that helps minorities or not, i think we agree that constantly recriminating the past isn't helping.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#118
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The war on drugs was started as a way to target people of color by Nixon So was Planned Parenthood. Instead of endlessly prosecuting the past, which can never change, let's look at today and tomorrow instead. Or, if you prefer, we could look at the exact opposite approach- the Opium wars were fought to force China to allow the sale and consumption of opium, the extensive use of which was practically epidemic. As su…

> So was Planned Parenthood. No it wasn't: https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/14/43208...

Even planned parenthood has been disavowing her:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/nyregion/planned-parentho...

In her speech the morality of birth control, she openly advocated for preventing undesirables (todays' deplorables) from procreating.

Edit: NPR's cherry-picking nice sounding quotes doesn't describe the totality of the woman, her views or the organization- then, or now.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe now that politicians see that people are very against drug laws we'll see some of them renege on their hard anti-drug stances. I'd love to see this, but I doubt it. I've sat in on court sessions, and towns and cities pull in a lot of revenue through low-level drug offenses, and cops spend a significant amount of their time investigating and arresting kids for drug offenses. The criminalization of drugs, espec…

Instead of ruining people's lives, we could just raise taxes slightly, but I doubt that will fly.

The threat of ruining people's lives is part of the racket. Kids are arrested and charged for low-level drug offenses for doing something innocuous like smoking a joint. Then, prosecutors in municipalities will offer them plea deals and offers to expunge their records in return for paying exorbitant fees and participating in a jobs program for probation officers.

Why would someone take a plea deal and agree to pay municipalities what often amounts to thousands of dollars in fees? Because students with drug offenses on their records can have their eligibility for student loans stripped, potentially ruining their chances at bettering their lives through education. A drug conviction will pop up on every background check if their records aren't expunged.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe now that politicians see that people are very against drug laws we'll see some of them renege on their hard anti-drug stances. I'd love to see this, but I doubt it. I've sat in on court sessions, and towns and cities pull in a lot of revenue through low-level drug offenses, and cops spend a significant amount of their time investigating and arresting kids for drug offenses. The criminalization of drugs, espec…

> There is a lot of money, and plenty of high-paying jobs with full pensions, that are kept afloat by the criminalization of drugs. This is the heart of it.

There's a reason that my local PBA is losing their minds over the potential for drugs like marijuana becoming legal, and it isn't because marijuana is harmful. It's because 60% of the town's budget goes to funding law enforcement salaries, benefits and pensions, and the majority of arrests in this area are for marijuana possession.
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